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Author | Topic: A Better Theory: In Defense of Food by Michael Pollan | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Straggler Member Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Percy writes: The interesting contradiction of processed foods is that they're being increasingly promoted as healthy simply because certain vitamins and minerals have been added. People's nominal desire to eat more healthily has been turned into a marketing strategy for innately unhealthy foods. It's mad really....
Percy writes: Ten years from now some new substance will have health primacy, at least in the minds of nutrition researchers and food marketeers. I suspect that part of the problem is that in many cases these are the same people. I don't want to completely derail your thread (so feel free to ignore) but I was trying to think of a situation where those processing food were attempting to do so with nutritional requirements rather than sales as the primary aim. The only situation I could think of was space food for astronaughts. If we are going to send manned space missions to places like Mars we are probably going to have to come up with ways of meeting genuine nutritional needs in some sort of processed food form. I have no idea what the current status of astronaught food is in terms of how it compares to fresh 'natural' food. But this must be an area of research for bodies like NASA....
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onifre Member (Idle past 2950 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
It's not killing you any more so than other sugars, according to research by J.S. White (2013). There wasn't a link to read but no worries. I don't disagree - stay away from all processed sugar or artificial sweetners. Good piece of advice. Get your sugar from fruits. The problem with HFCS is that it's in almost everything processed. - Oni
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onifre Member (Idle past 2950 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
People's nominal desire to eat more healthily has been turned into a marketing strategy for innately unhealthy foods. It's mad really.... It's always nice to give the people an enemy they can all hate, like "fat". A product with 40 grams of carbs can call itself "fat free" and people will eat it thinking it's the healthy choice. It should illegal to do that. - Oni
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Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Fructose has been implicated in the increasing rates of diabetes because, unlike glucose (metabolized by insulin), it is metabolized by the liver where, if energy isn't needed, it is metabolized into triglycerides (fat). As a prime contributor to obesity, fructose overconsumption (carbonated soda is a significant source) receives serious consideration as a cause of rising rates of metabolic syndrome (pre-diabetes) and diabetes.
From J. S. White's LinkedIn page:
Dr. John S. White is president and founder of WHITE Technical Research, an international consulting firm located in Argenta IL, serving the food and beverage industry since 1994. Oh, gee, what a surprise, his research is funded by the food and beverage industry. In past times he would have worked for the tobacco companies. Actually, I feel bad saying that. A guys gotta make a living, and the food industry is where the money is for his area of interest. When I see guys like this I just thank God I never have to make any moral choices in my own work, programming. Well, there are some, but they're kind of way indirect. --Percy
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Taq Member Posts: 9972 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
Plenty of them - just Google high fructose corn syrup in lab rats Here's a few things on it: Source Source Source Do you really think it doesn't harm you?
Just for the record, I am playing the devil's advocate on this one, so take my posts as food for thought (pun intended). It's not that I think processed foods do no harm. Rather, I think we need to check our assumptions and base our claims on evidence rather than tradition. What you are missing is that the very things you claim are healthy, be it fruits or corn itself, also contain these very same sugars, and yet you are advocating a diet containing fructose and glucose. Your posts have a slight tinge of vitalism, the idea that living matter is somehow different than non-living matter. Fructose and glucose act the same whether they come from an apple or a Mountain Dew. Ironically, what you seem to be arguing is that it is not what is put into processed foods that is the problem. It's what is taken OUT that is harmful. As you say, processed sugar contains no other nutrients other than the simple sugars. It is actually all of those long winded chemicals found in natural food that are beneficial to us, the exact OPPOSITE of what some people gripe about when it comes to processed foods.
You eat 4000 calories of processed foods, with refined sugars, carbs, and HFCS - and I'll eat 4000 calories of veggies and grass fed beef. To tell you the truth, I was much healthier when I was more active, regardless of what my diet was. In my youth I grew up on a ranch where I worked 2 hours or so a day during school, and that was on top of playing two sports. I ate "unhealthy" food all of the time, as well as some homegrown beef and veggies. I was still rail thin, could run a 5 minute mile, and never suffered from health issues. On the list of ways to be healthy I think exercise is by far the most important, well above what you eat, but that is just my opinion. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Taq Member Posts: 9972 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
Fructose has been implicated in the increasing rates of diabetes because, unlike glucose (metabolized by insulin), it is metabolized by the liver where, if energy isn't needed, it is metabolized into triglycerides (fat). As a prime contributor to obesity, fructose overconsumption (carbonated soda is a significant source) receives serious consideration as a cause of rising rates of metabolic syndrome (pre-diabetes) and diabetes. Apples contain fructose, so does that make apples dangerous to our health?
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Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Taq writes: Just for the record, I am playing the devil's advocate on this one...... Apples contain fructose, so does that make apples dangerous to our health? Thanks for the admission, I'm going to stop taking the bait now. --Percy
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Taq Member Posts: 9972 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5
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Thanks for the admission, I'm going to stop taking the bait now.
I am just curious how you people can warn of the dangers of fructose one minute, and then suggest that people eat fruits laden with fructose the next minute. What is it about fructose in fruits that makes it less dangerous?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
What is it about fructose in fruits that makes it less dangerous? Here's another thing that I find weird about the whole HFCS scare: Regular old sugar, sucrose, is 50% fructose and 50% glucose. High Fructose Corn Syrup is... wait for it... 55% fructose and 45% glucose. ZOMG! ITS SO HIGH IN FRUCTOSE!
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Taq Member Posts: 9972 Joined: Member Rating: 5.5 |
Here's another thing that I find weird about the whole HFCS scare: Regular old sugar, sucrose, is 50% fructose and 50% glucose. High Fructose Corn Syrup is... wait for it... 55% fructose and 45% glucose. ZOMG! ITS SO HIGH IN FRUCTOSE!
Just out of curiousity, I did some googling and found these interesting facts. First, a 100g apple will contain about 10g of sugar. Here is the interesting part. Counting the fructose from sucrose, the ratio of fructose to glucose is 2.0. There is twice as much fructose in an apple as compared to glucose. Compare this to the 1.22 ratio of fructose/glucose in HFCS.Fructose - Wikipedia At the same time, there is 39g of sugar in one can of Coke, so about 4 apples worth of sugar. So, three apples a day is about the equivalent of one can of Coke on a fructose to fructose basis. Edited by Taq, : No reason given. Edited by Taq, : math error
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Jon Inactive Member |
...yes. Look how we vote. Look at the scholastic standings against the rest of civilization. Yes. Houston, we have a problem. You attribute this to malnourishment?Love your enemies!
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Genomicus Member (Idle past 1941 days) Posts: 852 Joined: |
Dr. John S. White is president and founder of WHITE Technical Research, an international consulting firm located in Argenta IL, serving the food and beverage industry since 1994. Although this does not in itself refute the scientific merit of any research conducted by the author, you do point to an interesting discovery which certainly is a strong hint that there is a conflict of interest. I was just browsing PubMed on topics related to this thread and came across this paper. You made a good point, though.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
So, three apples a day is about the equivalent of one can of Coke on a fructose to fructose basis. And that's assuming a 100 g apple. Shit, the Granny Smith's at my local farmer's market are easily pushing 300 grams.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I've understood that it's the delivery system that makes the difference between the health effects of HFCS and fruits, and this does seem to be demonstrated by anyone who has a blood sugar problem. The HFCS would send blood sugar skyrocketing very rapidly, which throws the insulin producing system into emergency mode, but the fiber in the apple retards that effect, at least that's the theory for why there is a difference. It's the same situation with pure sugar and processed flour which also raise blood sugar rapidly. If you get either the sugar or the grain in its unprocessed form it doesn't overwhelm your insulin producing capacity.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Percy Member Posts: 22391 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Hi Taq,
With regard to fructose, you might be confusing me with something someone else said, maybe Onifre. The soundbite form of Pollan's dietary advice that I've been repeating is to eat food, mostly vegetables. That doesn't exclude fruit, but he isn't pushing it, either. Pollan's hypothesis is that the chemicals in any food exist in a matrix of fiber with all the other complex chemicals of a living plant, and that because of this they are experienced much differently by the human body than the same chemicals merely added to processed food. Fructose in an apple is in some incredibly complex arrangement of other chemicals and fiber, while fructose in HFCS, whether in a liquid such as soda or in a solid processed food, is available quickly and immediately, flooding the body with both glucose and fructose. The flood of glucose causes insulin spikes. The flood of fructose is metabolized by the liver into tryglycerides which it releases in to the bloodstream where the high insulin levels resulting from the glucose cause the triglycerides to be taken up into cells as fat. The glycemic index measures how fast a food's glucose (not fructose) is absorbed into the bloodstream, which is what causes insulin levels to rise. Apples have a glycemic index of 38, while the glucose in HFCS has a glycemic index of 100. Apples have a ratio of fructose to glucose of 3:1, while for HFCS it is 1.2:1. The much lower glycemic index of apples means that the insulin response is much lower than for HFCS, and the fructose will be equally slow in reaching the liver to produce triglycerides, so compared to HFCS there will be less insulin in the bloodstream, and also fewer tryglycerides for the insulin to store away into fat cells. I noticed someone boasting of how poorly he ate when young and very active, but young and very active people don't usually get heart disease or diabetes. That happens later. Where longevity is concerned we never fully escape the errors of our youth. It would make sense if longevity, on average, were a function of the quality of one's diet measured over a lifetime. --Percy
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