Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 63 (9045 total)
522 online now:
dwise1, jar, kjsimons, nwr (4 members, 518 visitors)
Newest Member: Dade
Post Volume: Total: 887,404 Year: 5,050/14,102 Month: 648/707 Week: 46/157 Day: 12/16 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 5 of 2241 (699262)
05-16-2013 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Zift Ylrhavic Resfear
05-15-2013 4:17 PM


Zift Ylrhavic Resfear writes:

If he truly cares about us, then he would rather have us do it without believing in him than not doing it but believing in him.


That's it exactly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Zift Ylrhavic Resfear, posted 05-15-2013 4:17 PM Zift Ylrhavic Resfear has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 37 of 2241 (701346)
06-17-2013 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
06-17-2013 10:11 AM


Re: No Results
Phat writes:

The Bible is obviously words of men. The question is whether or not these men were inspired from a source of knowledge and insight superior to themselves.


Actually, there are two separate questons: "Were they inspired by some outside source?" and if so, "Did that source have knowledge and insight superior to themselves?"

It's clear that the Bible is not inerrant, so either the inspiration was faulty or the message itself was faulty. Either way, the problem appears to be at the source.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 06-17-2013 10:11 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by GDR, posted 06-18-2013 10:30 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 39 of 2241 (701519)
06-20-2013 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by GDR
06-18-2013 10:30 PM


GDR writes:

We should accept the fact that the Bible is subject to the cultural and personal biases of the authors. Frankly it is only in that context that you can actually get a coherent narrative of God's interaction with us.


It's pretty simple, isn't it? If it goes well, you give God the credit. If it goes badly, you give people the blame. It's a flawless copout.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by GDR, posted 06-18-2013 10:30 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 54 of 2241 (701582)
06-21-2013 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by GDR
06-20-2013 6:57 PM


Re: No Results
GDR writes:

It was people who crucified Jesus and if Jesus was resurrected then it was God who resurrected Him.


It was people who captured Long John Silver and it was God who helped him escape.

No, wait. It was Jim Hawkins. That would be more plausible, wouldn't it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by GDR, posted 06-20-2013 6:57 PM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by GDR, posted 06-21-2013 9:30 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 76 of 2241 (701672)
06-23-2013 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by GDR
06-21-2013 9:30 PM


Re: No Results
GDR writes:

As I understood the story it was that God inspired Jim Hawkins to make it all possible. That is the most plausible of all.


Then who inspired Long John Silver?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by GDR, posted 06-21-2013 9:30 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 95 of 2241 (701890)
06-27-2013 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Ossat
06-26-2013 4:56 AM


Ossat writes:

I know you don't believe in anything of this and think that mainstream scientist have everything figured out.


Science is basically a matter of one step forward and two steps back; every question we answer provokes two more questions. That's why science-minded people tend to be leery of any claims that a book has all the answers.

I used to have as my signature, "People who have all the answers usually don't understand the questions." That's the problem with the Bible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Ossat, posted 06-26-2013 4:56 AM Ossat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 103 of 2241 (738040)
10-04-2014 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by djufo
10-04-2014 11:25 AM


Re: All in the same boat
djufo writes:

The ancient texts were never written in "belief".


How do you know the intentions of the authors?

Why did Ian Fleming write Casino Royale? Did he need the money? Was he trying to prove he could write as well as Tolstoy? Did he do it on a bet? I'm sure he told people why he did it in interviews, etc. but how do we know he was telling the truth? He was a fiction writer, after all. How do we know that anything he said wasn't fiction?

And if we can't tell the intentions of somebody in our own lifetime, how much harder is it to tell the intentions of somebody thousands of years ago?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by djufo, posted 10-04-2014 11:25 AM djufo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by djufo, posted 10-04-2014 3:21 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 114 of 2241 (738163)
10-05-2014 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by djufo
10-04-2014 3:21 PM


Re: All in the same boat
djufo writes:

The mayans depicted the same deities depicted in mesopotamia, as the ones in ancient India and Peru.


Similar is not the same as "the same". There are similarities between myths around the world but there are also great differences.

djufo writes:

Also based on your logic, why should we believe that Washington and the founding fathers really existed?


There is a variety of evidence that George Washington et al. existed. Volumes were written about them during their own lifetimes and shortly after by people who actually knew them. No single piece of evidence is conclusive but the body of evidence is persuasive.

djufo writes:

just because everybody believes the story means is truth and I am forced to believe it too?


That seems to be your logic, that the gods "must" be real because people all over the world believed in them.

djufo writes:

Bottom line, why in the world ancients civilizations would base their existence in writing our origins the best they could to pass it onto us other than the truth?


The bottom line is that they didn't know "the truth". They only knew what they believed to be true. That's why beliefs all around the world are different, because nobody knows "the truth".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by djufo, posted 10-04-2014 3:21 PM djufo has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Phat, posted 10-05-2014 3:52 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 116 of 2241 (738169)
10-05-2014 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Phat
10-05-2014 3:52 PM


Re: All in the same boat
Phat writes:

Its quite a blanket assertion to declare that--just because we don't know the truth that nobody does.


If somebody else knew "the truth", how would you know they knew? If you could know that what they know is "the truth", wouldn't you know "the truth" too?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Phat, posted 10-05-2014 3:52 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 155 of 2241 (738429)
10-10-2014 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Faith
10-10-2014 1:04 PM


Re: 3 in one
Faith writes:

... you have to understand the concept to know how to read these things.


So you need to know the answer before you can read the question correctly? You need to know whodunit so you can decide what clues to look for?

You need to know that the Bible is inerrant before you can sweep the errancies under the rug?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 10-10-2014 1:04 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 10-10-2014 1:29 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 201 of 2241 (738500)
10-11-2014 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Faith
10-10-2014 1:29 PM


Re: 3 in one
Faith writes:

We are to understand the Bible by the light of the Bible.


Who sez so? The Bible? If you have to assume the truth to conclude the truth, that isn't just circular; it's a maelstrom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 10-10-2014 1:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Phat, posted 10-11-2014 11:58 AM ringo has responded
 Message 214 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 2:23 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 205 of 2241 (738509)
10-11-2014 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Phat
10-11-2014 11:58 AM


Re: 3 in one
Phat writes:

I think what she means is that in her belief, we (humans) are to understand truth through the light of the truth.


That's what I said. And we are to understand oxygen by breathing. It's a lot cheaper than those pesky laboratories.

Phat writes:

Proponents would claim that there is one truth, one light, and one God.


And His name is Allah.

Phat writes:

For whatever reason, this God appears to have made you a contrarian who questions not only God but human logic, reason, and belief.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Phat, posted 10-11-2014 11:58 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 208 of 2241 (738513)
10-11-2014 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Phat
10-11-2014 12:47 PM


Re: 3 in one
Phat writes:

Does it look like an M.C. Escher sketch?


It's a pyramid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Phat, posted 10-11-2014 12:47 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 305 of 2241 (738683)
10-14-2014 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by Faith
10-11-2014 2:23 PM


Re: 3 in one
Faith writes:

It is a standard rule of Biblical exegesis to interpret Bible by Bible because you risk developing a false theology based on partial concepts taken out of context if you don't.


The problem is that your theology implodes if it is nothing but self-reference. You could build such a theology on any book.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 2:23 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19238
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(2)
Message 372 of 2241 (738834)
10-16-2014 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 366 by Faith
10-16-2014 1:34 AM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
Faith writes:

Anyone who knows and believes the Bible and represents it correctly speaks for God, sorry.


You don't know the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Faith, posted 10-16-2014 1:34 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by Phat, posted 10-16-2014 4:35 PM ringo has responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2021