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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
Theodoric
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Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 35 of 2241 (701333)
06-17-2013 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Thugpreacha
06-17-2013 10:11 AM


Re: No Results
No...you don't see this. There is no "we" in this argument, concerning a set that includes both you and I.

It has been proven scientifically and statistically that there is not advantage to prayer. Any advantages seen are coincidental and attempts to make the prayer related no matter the flimsiest of connection.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-17-2013 10:11 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 50 of 2241 (701573)
06-21-2013 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Faith
06-21-2013 5:08 AM


Re: No Results
The Bible is full of evidence of Jesus' death for us.

You have trouble understanding the word evidence. It has stories but no evidence. In order to be evidence something else must corroborate it. Nothing else corroborates the bible, all other "evidence" is derived from the bible. There is no "evidence" independent of the bible.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Faith, posted 06-21-2013 5:08 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by 1.61803, posted 06-21-2013 11:03 AM Theodoric has responded
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 06-21-2013 11:26 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 53 of 2241 (701576)
06-21-2013 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by 1.61803
06-21-2013 11:03 AM


Re: No Results
They do not corroborate the bible. They are both decades removed from the supposed time of Jesus.

See earlier posts on this.
Message 7

quote:
TACITUS (c.112CE)

Roughly 80 years after the alleged events Tacitus allegedly wrote a (now) famous passage about "Christ" - this passage has several problems however:
* Tacitus uses the term "procurator", used in his later times, but not correct for the actual period, when "prefect" was used.
* Tacitus names the person as "Christ", when Roman records could not possibly have used this name (it would have been "Jesus, son of Joseph" or similar.)
* Tacitus accepts the recent advent of Christianity, which was against Roman practice (to only allow ancient and accepted cults and religions.)
* (No-one refers to this passage for a millenium, even early Christians who actively sought such passages.)

Thus, even if the Tacitus passage is not a later interpolation,
it is not evidence of a historical Jesus based on earlier Roman records,
but
merely a few details which Tacitus gathered from Christian stories circulating in his time (c.f. Pliny.)...

JOSEPHUS (c.96CE)

The famous Testamonium Flavianum is considered probably the best evidence for Jesus, yet it has some serious problems :
* the T.F. as it stands uses clearly Christian phrases and names Christ as Messiah, it could not possibly have been written by the Jew Josephus (who refused to acknowledge anyone "messiah"),
* The T.F. comes in several versions of various ages,
* The T.F. was not mentioned by Origen when he reviewed Josephus - Origen even says Josephus does NOT call Jesus the Messiah, showing the passage was not present in that earlier era.
* The T.F. first showed up in manuscripts of Eusebius, and was still absent from some manuscripts as late as 8th century.
* (The other tiny passage in Josephus is probably a later interpolation.)

An analysis of Josephus can be found here:
http://www.humanists.net/jesuspuzzle/supp10.htm

In short - this passage is possibly a total forgery (or at best a corrupt form of a lost original.)


The do not show any evidence independent of the bible.

There are no independent, contemporary sources for the biblical Jesus. Christians claim there are but I am still waiting.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by 1.61803, posted 06-21-2013 11:03 AM 1.61803 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by 1.61803, posted 06-21-2013 12:46 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 75 of 2241 (701667)
06-23-2013 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Dr Adequate
06-23-2013 1:37 AM


Then inventing death was something of an error of judgement on his part.

He evidently had no control over that. Some god, eh?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-23-2013 1:37 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 125 of 2241 (738350)
10-09-2014 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Thugpreacha
10-09-2014 8:21 AM


Re: 3 in one
The leaps and contortions christians will go through in order to rationalize is amazing. Don't get me start on catholic transubstantiation.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-09-2014 8:21 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 131 of 2241 (738358)
10-09-2014 11:47 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Faith
10-09-2014 10:10 AM


Re: 3 in one
Those are some pretty impressive logistical and intellectual gymnastics you need to perform in order to get the meaning you want out of the actual lines in the bible.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 10:10 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 136 of 2241 (738369)
10-09-2014 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Faith
10-09-2014 12:33 PM


Re: 3 in one
The links in your links are dead. Try again.

ABE
Oh yeah still not evidence. Apologetics is not evidence.

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 12:33 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 141 of 2241 (738392)
10-09-2014 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Faith
10-09-2014 4:02 PM


Re: 3 in one
How this can be dismissed as Apologetics is beyond me.

Do you even know what the term, apologetics means?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 4:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Faith, posted 10-09-2014 8:07 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 174 of 2241 (738463)
10-10-2014 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by dwise1
10-10-2014 7:42 PM


Re: 3 in one
One quibble it is Ambrose Bierce not Pierce.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by dwise1, posted 10-10-2014 7:42 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 227 of 2241 (738540)
10-11-2014 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Thugpreacha
10-11-2014 11:56 AM


Re: 3 in one
I don't give a rats ass what people think of my beliefs. I think you will find that many agnostics and atheists have similar thoughts. It seems only the religious feel threatened and have a need to constantly have their beliefs validated. I wonder why that is.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-11-2014 11:56 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 228 of 2241 (738541)
10-11-2014 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Thugpreacha
10-11-2014 11:58 AM


Re: 3 in one
Understand the truth through the truth? A bit circular don't you think.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-11-2014 11:58 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 229 of 2241 (738542)
10-11-2014 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Faith
10-11-2014 2:50 PM


Re: 3 in one
Your god is a person? No wonder you religion is so weak and persecuted. Get a real god like Odin, Zeus or Allah. Now those are real gods. No namby pamby people there.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 2:50 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Faith, posted 10-11-2014 9:44 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 338 of 2241 (738734)
10-14-2014 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by Faith
10-14-2014 6:01 PM


I consider myself one of those extremely fortunate people.

Of course you do. Your hubris is amazing. If you and your type populated heaven I wouldn't want to be there anyway.

By the way where is heaven?

Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Faith, posted 10-14-2014 6:01 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 340 of 2241 (738736)
10-14-2014 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by Faith
10-14-2014 9:03 PM


Re: Review of the False Church of Rome
They all deviate from the doctrine at crucial points.

They deviate from your interpretation of doctrine, which deviates from original christian doctrine.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by Faith, posted 10-14-2014 9:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6896
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 381 of 2241 (738888)
10-17-2014 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by Thugpreacha
10-17-2014 2:37 AM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
A genuine experience can be written about better than a made up fantasy.

Bullshit. Fiction can be a lot more engrossing than non-fiction. The skill of the writer is more important than whether the experience was genuine or not.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-17-2014 2:37 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
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