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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 46 of 2241 (701569)
06-21-2013 5:08 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Tangle
06-21-2013 4:16 AM


Re: No Results
sending his son to earth to die for us then not leaving a scrap of evidence that it actually happened is simply not credible.

Why do you keep saying this? It's obviously false. The Bible is full of evidence of Jesus' death for us.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Theodoric, posted 06-21-2013 9:26 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 52 of 2241 (701575)
06-21-2013 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Theodoric
06-21-2013 9:26 AM


Re: No Results
The Bible is full of evidence of Jesus' death for us.

You have trouble understanding the word evidence. It has stories but no evidence. In order to be evidence something else must corroborate it. Nothing else corroborates the bible, all other "evidence" is derived from the bible. There is no "evidence" independent of the bible.

No, it is you who have a problem with the concept of evidence. The Bible is a collection of the writings of independent witnesses, it needs no outside corroboration.


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Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 127 of 2241 (738353)
10-09-2014 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Percy
10-09-2014 8:30 AM


Re: 3 in one
Phat's diagram says it well enough: Three Persons in One God.

And this is based directly on scripture, where verses that show three separate Persons each with the attributes of God, are demonstrated, such as HERE

But Jesus is also Man, remember, who can talk to God from the point of view of a man.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 129 of 2241 (738355)
10-09-2014 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by Percy
10-09-2014 10:29 AM


Re: 3 in one
It's matters not to me what people believe privately, but when they publicly offer their unevidenced rationales they shouldn't expect others to respond, "Oh, that makes perfect sense." If it makes sense to you that's all you should require.

I just gave you a ton of evidence, and if you haven't tried to understand it how do you know if it makes sense or not? However, you are not, of course, obliged to consider it if you don't want to.

But you nevertheless feel free to oblige me to require no more than it make sense to me? Where do you get the authority to tell me I should be content with what makes sense to me and not try to persuade others of these things?


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Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 130 of 2241 (738356)
10-09-2014 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Percy
10-09-2014 8:30 AM


Re: 3 in one
Plus, of course, you feel free to ridicule the Trinitarian concept while requiring that I not try to prove you wrong.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Percy, posted 10-09-2014 12:13 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 134 of 2241 (738366)
10-09-2014 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Percy
10-09-2014 12:13 PM


Re: 3 in one
http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&m=703741

http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&m=695580

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 138 of 2241 (738379)
10-09-2014 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Percy
10-09-2014 1:48 PM


Re: 3 in one
How this can be dismissed as Apologetics is beyond me.

To prove the Trinity takes a long list of Biblical verses. I did at least sketch out in that one post I linked to what the categories of those verses are. Individual verses show that God is One, that the Father has the attributes of God, that the Son has the attributes of God, and that the Holy Spirit has the attributes of God, and they show the three acting independently of one another as separate "Persons." When the subject first came up it was understood that I couldn't spell all that out without taking up too much space and that simply indicating what the link explained was sufficient in this case. However, I'll try to get back later and find at least one verse per category to make the point.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by NoNukes, posted 10-09-2014 4:42 PM Faith has responded
 Message 141 by Theodoric, posted 10-09-2014 6:39 PM Faith has responded
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Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 140 of 2241 (738384)
10-09-2014 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by NoNukes
10-09-2014 4:42 PM


Re: 3 in one
That's what I just did that they are complaining about. For one thing the links are broken. Ill have to track down the relevant verses later.

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Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 142 of 2241 (738396)
10-09-2014 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Theodoric
10-09-2014 6:39 PM


Re: 3 in one
What I linked was evidence for the Trinity. Evidence.

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Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 144 of 2241 (738399)
10-09-2014 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Percy
10-09-2014 8:19 PM


Re: 3 in one
Funny, that's how the Trinity was first formulated, from the verses in the Bible that add up to such a concept.

But that's fine, I don't want to waste my time trying to show you something you'll just ignore anyway.


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Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 147 of 2241 (738405)
10-09-2014 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by NoNukes
10-09-2014 8:39 PM


Re: 3 in one
The evidence is in the list of verses, but there was some sort of preamble to the list explaining that the Trinity isn't stated in so many words but inferred from all those separate verses that present the nature of God as One in Three independent Persons, then the verses show that to be the case.

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 166 by dwise1, posted 10-10-2014 6:36 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 149 of 2241 (738410)
10-10-2014 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by NoNukes
10-09-2014 10:20 PM


Re: 3 in one
Is THIS what you are referring to? I don't see an argument there so much as a compilation of the scripture verses from which the Trinity was originally derived.

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Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 153 of 2241 (738425)
10-10-2014 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Percy
10-10-2014 8:54 AM


Re: 3 in one
I don't know why I wrote that the way I did; I agree it doesn't make sense as written. But I'd respond now that you can't compare the Bible, which is many books written by many authors over millennia, to any work of fiction. To derive a complex concept like the Trinity from all those different books does require something supernatural about those books, something the authors themselves weren't even conscious of.

And when somebody doesn't even try to understand the Trinity it's awfully hard to discuss it, as you do here:

You say God is a threesome: God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost.
But that is not what the Trinity is and not what I've said. You make one of the typical mistakes about it when you confuse God the Father with the Trinity itself. The three are God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost; all three make up God the Trinity, One God in Three Persons. Occasionally God the Father represents the Trinity in scripture, but you have to understand the concept to know how to read these things.

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Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 154 of 2241 (738426)
10-10-2014 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by NoNukes
10-10-2014 12:02 PM


Re: 3 in one
Still, I think it is within the scope of discussion to decide exactly what the Bible does say before or in the process of questioning its accuracy.

If you really think that I would expect that you'd take a look at that link you refused to look at because that would tell you what the Bible says about the Trinity.

It's a complex subject, lots of separate references are involved. I really don't have the patience to walk anyone through all that right now, someone who is already convinced it makes no sense anyway.


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Faith
Member
Posts: 33914
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 156 of 2241 (738430)
10-10-2014 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by ringo
10-10-2014 1:16 PM


Re: 3 in one
We are to understand the Bible by the light of the Bible. Many heresies are the result of taking a concept out of context. When you find a statement that treats God the Father as representative of the Trinity, you can easily misunderstand it unless you know what the Bible says overall about the Trinity.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by dwise1, posted 10-10-2014 7:42 PM Faith has responded
 Message 201 by ringo, posted 10-11-2014 11:41 AM Faith has responded

  
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