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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1063 of 2241 (745932)
12-29-2014 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1059 by jar
12-29-2014 2:45 PM


Re: what is scripture?
You kinda lost me there. What contradictions and absurdity do you find in John?
From John
3:14. Jesus believes the stupid story of god getting snakes to bite people, because they complained about a lack of food ( From Numbers 21)
5:17 God works on sabbath and so does Jesus ( Not according to Genesis 2:2-3)
5:46 Claims Moses wrote about him ( Nope)
11:42 Prays in public, in contradiction to Matt 6:5-6 where you don't do that
14:13 Whatever you ask in my name I will do ( lol, that's a beauty!)
6:53-57. Eat his flesh and drink his blood to be saved.
There are lots more. I call it errors, or contradiction or absurd....one of those.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1059 by jar, posted 12-29-2014 2:45 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1064 by jar, posted 12-29-2014 7:14 PM Golffly has not replied
 Message 1065 by NoNukes, posted 12-29-2014 7:30 PM Golffly has replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1066 of 2241 (745935)
12-29-2014 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1065 by NoNukes
12-29-2014 7:30 PM


Re: what is scripture?
That's okay half BS.
True Christian doesn't see any.
I see mostly BS. No nukes you can run the middle ground. ))
There is lots more half BS.
But, this is my view for sure.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1065 by NoNukes, posted 12-29-2014 7:30 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1067 by NoNukes, posted 12-30-2014 1:19 AM Golffly has not replied
 Message 1068 by Phat, posted 12-30-2014 1:21 AM Golffly has replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1072 of 2241 (745961)
12-30-2014 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1070 by ringo
12-30-2014 10:39 AM


Re: what is scripture?
Okay Ringo.
I'll show some more "inconsistencies".
I'll do a little homework later. I remember a couple other inconsistencies ( for me) but there are quite a few more.
I suspect you'll disagree for the hell of it though. :-))))

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1070 by ringo, posted 12-30-2014 10:39 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1073 by ringo, posted 12-30-2014 11:38 AM Golffly has replied
 Message 1074 by Golffly, posted 12-30-2014 11:49 AM Golffly has not replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1074 of 2241 (745967)
12-30-2014 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1072 by Golffly
12-30-2014 11:30 AM


Re: what is scripture?
Okay, these two others I know but I'll give more after I check some notes later.
_________________________________________________
John 1:18 Nobody has seen god at any time
Well, yes they have:
Gen 35:9, Exodus 6:3, Numbers 14:14, Deu 5:4
( God is seen in a few other places too)
___________________________________________________
Jesus judges no one : John 12:47
Jesus does indeed judge: John 5:22, 26-27
__________________________________________________

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1072 by Golffly, posted 12-30-2014 11:30 AM Golffly has not replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1075 of 2241 (745968)
12-30-2014 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1073 by ringo
12-30-2014 11:38 AM


Re: what is scripture?
I think you're trying too hard to find inconsistencies
But I don't have to try hard, that's the problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1073 by ringo, posted 12-30-2014 11:38 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1076 by ringo, posted 12-30-2014 12:03 PM Golffly has replied
 Message 1080 by NoNukes, posted 12-30-2014 1:21 PM Golffly has not replied
 Message 1081 by NoNukes, posted 12-30-2014 1:22 PM Golffly has replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1077 of 2241 (745970)
12-30-2014 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1076 by ringo
12-30-2014 12:03 PM


Re: what is scripture?
You don't have to try very hard to find ugly people either, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder and your list isn't likely to impress anybody but yourself.
Did ugly people write errant stuff and claim it's inspired by god, then form religions around the errancy?. Then ya, I have a problem with that.
But to heck with it then. I'll leave it alone, don't want to be a self-impressionist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1076 by ringo, posted 12-30-2014 12:03 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1078 by ringo, posted 12-30-2014 12:28 PM Golffly has replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1079 of 2241 (745973)
12-30-2014 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1078 by ringo
12-30-2014 12:28 PM


Re: what is scripture?
Why?
Indeed why is what I ask myself.
You say this:
On the other hand, internal inconsistencies, if any, could suggest that it is not authentic.
Then follow it up with suggestion that I'm now trying to hard to find unimpressive inconsistencies.
I call that yanking the chain.
You can answer the why.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1078 by ringo, posted 12-30-2014 12:28 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1102 by ringo, posted 12-31-2014 10:38 AM Golffly has replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1082 of 2241 (745979)
12-30-2014 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1081 by NoNukes
12-30-2014 1:22 PM


Re: what is scripture?
You should not have to try at all. If you are truly bothered by the inconsistencies in John or any other part of the Bible, I would expect you to be able to rattle off the issues from memory with perhaps some refreshing of your memory by glancing at the text. What's the source of your difficulty?
I just did that, no problem.
But, I'll avoid doing it now. Don't want to rub guys wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1081 by NoNukes, posted 12-30-2014 1:22 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1084 by NoNukes, posted 12-30-2014 6:00 PM Golffly has replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1083 of 2241 (745980)
12-30-2014 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 1068 by Phat
12-30-2014 1:21 AM


Re: what is scripture?
[q/s=phat]You do seem like an interesting chap! Stick around awhile...I love meeting new people.[/qs]
Thanks. I'll try and stick around awhile.
I'm not that interesting by the way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1068 by Phat, posted 12-30-2014 1:21 AM Phat has not replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1085 of 2241 (745982)
12-30-2014 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1084 by NoNukes
12-30-2014 6:00 PM


Re: what is scripture?
This is a debate site. I expect and hope to see controversy here. Are you sure you aren't bluffing?
Bluffing, about what?
No clue, absolutely no clue, to what you speak

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1084 by NoNukes, posted 12-30-2014 6:00 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1086 by NoNukes, posted 12-30-2014 10:36 PM Golffly has replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1092 of 2241 (745998)
12-31-2014 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1086 by NoNukes
12-30-2014 10:36 PM


Re: what is scripture?
no nukes writes:
To be clear, I'm asking if your reticence to cite contradictions in the Bible is really a bluff or are you truly concerned about hurting someone's feelings? After all, you initially told us that you were going to provide some more examples.
I'll admit that I am merely trying to prod you into continuing. Feel free to ignore.
You have an odd way of prodding. I put up a few passages which you don't find impressive. Kind of half BS. If I can continue on spewing BS, seems pointless don't you think? Ringo thinks similar and True Christian has seen it all before and it's another moot point or misses the point.
So in absence of specific direct question on it, I'll pass on further head banging into wall.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1086 by NoNukes, posted 12-30-2014 10:36 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1101 of 2241 (746021)
12-31-2014 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1099 by Phat
12-31-2014 9:54 AM


Re: on faith
phat writes:
This is where you and I thus disagree as Christians. I believe that God is alive and is able to heal. Even if the probability suggests otherwise.
That is a demonstrable effect. It's testable. The correct god can heal. You can set up experiments to prove that. They don't show a demonstrated effect. So you have the wrong god, or he doesn't heal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1099 by Phat, posted 12-31-2014 9:54 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1103 by jar, posted 12-31-2014 10:43 AM Golffly has not replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


(1)
Message 1107 of 2241 (746035)
12-31-2014 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1102 by ringo
12-31-2014 10:38 AM


Re: what is scripture?
Ringo writes:
The question is, why is the authenticity important to you?
I know Treasure Island isn't authentic - i.e. the characters never existed, the events never happened - but it's still one of my favorite books. Would it have more value to me if it was "authentic"? No.
So why do you care about the authenticity of the Bible?
The bible is not authentic. Writers claiming to be people they aren't adds further suggestion to that.
It should be important to anybody that believes it is the word of god, inerrant or literal or historical non- fiction. That does not include you or I.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1102 by ringo, posted 12-31-2014 10:38 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1112 by NoNukes, posted 01-01-2015 5:55 AM Golffly has replied
 Message 1136 by ringo, posted 01-02-2015 11:07 AM Golffly has replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1115 of 2241 (746057)
01-01-2015 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1112 by NoNukes
01-01-2015 5:55 AM


Re: what is scripture?
no nukes writes:
Pretty good summary. As someone who does believe that the Bible is non-fiction (although it is quite often non-literal and reflects lots of human error), authorship does matter to me. However I don't conclude, as you do, that the Bible is not authentic.
If you believe it's non- fiction you should be able to support that. What part is non- fiction and what part is fiction and how do you tell the difference. ?
no nukes writes:
On the other hand, you do a pretty good imitation of someone who actually does care. You've acknowledged past betrayal over authorship issues regarding John, and you've spent some considerable time discussing the subject here.
I have been Christian. So from a Christian perspective, in my opinion, authentic should matter. I have not spent much time at all discussing authorship of John. I spent little time on it. There is a lot of information on it and I consider it " touched on" in my posts. Not considerable time...in my own assessment. However, I have said it appears to be not " impressive" to any here. The guys here, in my opinion, are very sharp guys. So maybe banging my head against the wall showing something, that sharp guys consider as not much..well logically I have to think that maybe I'm not doing much and continuing in the same way isn't adding anything. Some seem outright put out by it, including you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1112 by NoNukes, posted 01-01-2015 5:55 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1116 by NoNukes, posted 01-01-2015 11:25 AM Golffly has replied
 Message 1117 by Phat, posted 01-01-2015 11:46 AM Golffly has replied
 Message 1121 by jar, posted 01-01-2015 12:46 PM Golffly has not replied

  
Golffly
Member (Idle past 3108 days)
Posts: 287
Joined: 12-19-2014


Message 1118 of 2241 (746061)
01-01-2015 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1116 by NoNukes
01-01-2015 11:25 AM


Re: what is scripture?
The question remains no nukes, how do you tell fiction from non- fiction?
Or as you restated, how do you know the " essentials" of Christianity are true, as opposed to whatever the non- essentials are, that aren't necessarily true?
Same question really.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1116 by NoNukes, posted 01-01-2015 11:25 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1120 by NoNukes, posted 01-01-2015 12:15 PM Golffly has replied

  
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