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Author
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Topic: Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 926 of 2241 (745599)
12-24-2014 5:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 922 by Golffly
12-24-2014 3:24 PM
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Tradition and Speculation
who exactly was Mark Twain before Clemens wrote as Mark Twain? Mark Twain was a creation from the imagination of Clemons. Humans were a gleam in the eye of their father before they were conceived...but humans have limited imaginations. It is interesting to me to speculate about God as I believe God to be and to speculate how an eternal Being would imagine/create and what type of a mind or intelligence such a Being would possibly have. Ask jar to explain to you the concept of GOD, God, and god
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 922 by Golffly, posted 12-24-2014 3:24 PM | | Golffly has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 927 of 2241 (745600)
12-24-2014 5:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 925 by jar
12-24-2014 4:23 PM
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Re: what is scripture?
jar writes: So if you had been presented with the complexities involved in the Judaic faiths including understanding that Jews recognized that often there was no one right answer, that the concept of "God" was not simple and was something to be struggled over, would your feelings be different? I dont believe that there are currently any right or absolute answers...at least as long as we are alive and possibly after. I DO believe that asking questions and searching for knowledge and wisdom from others is encouraged.
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 925 by jar, posted 12-24-2014 4:23 PM | | jar has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 929 of 2241 (745604)
12-24-2014 6:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 928 by NoNukes
12-24-2014 5:13 PM
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Re: what is scripture?
NoNukes writes: What in the gospel according to John is only believable if the gospel were written by John? This gets back to Source and Content. For me personally, I value the belief that the Source of the Gospel of John is of the highest intention and inspiration. To me, the Gospel would be a fraud if it were written with an ulterior and/or selfish motive. If, on the other hand, the author was inspired to write the Gospel, I would currently believe that the Content and meaning of the Gospel was genuine. This is only my belief, though. The Gospel describes Jesus differently than the other Gospels, and my question would be whether John was written to inspire and further enlighten or whether it was written to confuse, deceive, and misdirect the intentions of the readers.
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 928 by NoNukes, posted 12-24-2014 5:13 PM | | NoNukes has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 930 by jar, posted 12-24-2014 6:24 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 991 of 2241 (745748)
12-27-2014 3:34 AM
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Reply to: Message 990 by Tangle
12-27-2014 3:31 AM
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Flippin The Scrip
I dunno, Tangle. I believe there is something to the wisdom. We always talk about these things here at EvC and we always disagree!  I hope you have a happy new year though and may God bless you and guide you in 2015.
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 990 by Tangle, posted 12-27-2014 3:31 AM | | Tangle has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 992 by Tangle, posted 12-27-2014 3:42 AM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 993 of 2241 (745756)
12-27-2014 9:02 AM
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Reply to: Message 992 by Tangle
12-27-2014 3:42 AM
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Re: Flippin The Scrip
Tangle writes: But you always just shrug these problems off without - it seems to me - actually thinking about them. You protect yourself from these ideas by wrapping your protective cloak of belief around yourself. Like you just did. Why do preachers teach what is known to be false and what they don't believe themselves? I am consciously being honest. Granted I agree that much of it logically makes no sense. Theoretically I could be either dishonest(subconsciously) or in denial...but I believe that what I have experienced and discerned is real. I will readily agree that some preachers slang the news in order to make money and/or to feed ego and make a name for themselves. I hope and pray that I dont end up like that...for I am no better than anyone else.
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 992 by Tangle, posted 12-27-2014 3:42 AM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1001 of 2241 (745791)
12-27-2014 12:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 1000 by Faith
12-27-2014 12:03 PM
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Re: what is scripture?
I think that the point is to focus on what was and is said in John. For the purposes of discussion, I will allow the possibility that someone besides John wrote John. If true, I would still believe that the scripture was inspired. Thus our focus---if we are to talk about John--is what the scripture says and the validity of the teaching. This whole schpiel about evidence is quite frankly a tool of the enemy, in my opinion. It is irrelevant who wrote it---it is only relevant the level of inspiration and truth which the scripture contains. Theodoric, do you see anything written in John that you are uncomfortable with?
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1000 by Faith, posted 12-27-2014 12:03 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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We Have Met The Enemy
Theodoric writes: You think those who do not believe what you do are the enemy. I do not think of you as an enemy. There is no war between us, but alas you and the other fundies feel there is a war and will not be satisfied until non-believers, and those that believe differently, are utterly and totally defeated. You are not the enemy. The enemy is a spirit. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1012 by Theodoric, posted 12-28-2014 9:55 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1041 of 2241 (745899)
12-29-2014 7:35 AM
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Reply to: Message 1037 by jar
12-28-2014 8:58 PM
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Re: or of Jesus
How could a True Christian doubt the existence of Christ?
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1037 by jar, posted 12-28-2014 8:58 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1042 by jar, posted 12-29-2014 7:58 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 1071 by ringo, posted 12-30-2014 10:45 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1068 of 2241 (745941)
12-30-2014 1:21 AM
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Reply to: Message 1066 by Golffly
12-29-2014 8:14 PM
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Re: what is scripture?
Golffly writes: this is my view for sure. You do seem like an interesting chap! Stick around awhile...I love meeting new people.
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1066 by Golffly, posted 12-29-2014 8:14 PM | | Golffly has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1088 of 2241 (745988)
12-31-2014 1:46 AM
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Reply to: Message 1087 by GDR
12-30-2014 11:35 PM
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Re: Tradition
GDR writes: I do call it evidence but not in the scientific sense. It isn't concrete, it isn't provable and in the end it is a faith. However, as Bob Dylan said, "you've got to serve somebody" and we all make our own choices. The evidence will be lived out in the Christians today. We have failed in the past.
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1087 by GDR, posted 12-30-2014 11:35 PM | | GDR has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1090 of 2241 (745996)
12-31-2014 6:16 AM
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Reply to: Message 1089 by Tangle
12-31-2014 4:00 AM
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Re: Tradition
Tangle writes: It's(empathy) a measurable brain function which we're beginning to properly understand. I suppose that love can also be quantified. Im going to remind you that you said that, one of these days. 
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1089 by Tangle, posted 12-31-2014 4:00 AM | | Tangle has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1106 by Tangle, posted 12-31-2014 12:30 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1095 of 2241 (746014)
12-31-2014 8:28 AM
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Reply to: Message 1094 by jar
12-31-2014 8:24 AM
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Re: or of Jesus
faith is often irrational. You yourself know that the Nicene Creed is illogical from a rational perspective.(as an example)
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1094 by jar, posted 12-31-2014 8:24 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1096 by jar, posted 12-31-2014 8:41 AM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1097 of 2241 (746016)
12-31-2014 8:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 1096 by jar
12-31-2014 8:41 AM
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Re: on faith
So what if an individual is faced with a choice between faith and probability? (In a scientific sense) For instance, a patient has a terminal disease and will probably die. Is it wrong to have the faith that they will live?
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1096 by jar, posted 12-31-2014 8:41 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1098 by jar, posted 12-31-2014 9:04 AM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1099 of 2241 (746019)
12-31-2014 9:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 1098 by jar
12-31-2014 9:04 AM
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Re: on faith
This is where you and I thus disagree as Christians. I believe that God is alive and is able to heal. Even if the probability suggests otherwise. Dont get me wrong, I would approach such a scenario realistically. I would acknowledge that the evidence and scientific probability are reality based, but there are times when I would put my faith in God above the evidence of reality. You probably would not, if I know you.
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1098 by jar, posted 12-31-2014 9:04 AM | | jar has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 1113 of 2241 (746047)
01-01-2015 7:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 1102 by ringo
12-31-2014 10:38 AM
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Authenticity
double post Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1102 by ringo, posted 12-31-2014 10:38 AM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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