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Author | Topic: Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I don't see what "surrendering to the will of God" has to do with the topic. God could have dictated the Bible, word for word, in King James English, and the scribes could have written it down faithfully regardless of any ulterior motives or intentions. We have reporters today who faithfully report the news even if they don't believe a word of what the protagonists are saying. Were the individuals who collectively were responsible for deciding which words and books were to be allowed in the popular Bible motivated through prayer and a life where not just the mind and emotions but the daily will surrendered to God? Or...were they motivated by other spirits or vibes or intentions? The problem with inerrancy is that the content doesn't match reality. Therefore, either the source didn't know what he was talking about or he was reported inaccurately. The reasons why he may have been reported inaccurately are not really relevant.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
So give us references where He quoted from Nahum, Obadiah, or Esther. Or Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings, 1 Chronicles, Job, Ezra, Nehemiah, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Joel, Amos, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, or Haggai. Oh make it three: Jesus quoted from every book in the Old Testament, quoted it as THE WORD OF GOD. (I got these examples from a Catholic website, by the way, so here's yor chance to prove them wrong.)
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Just FYI, I don't think anybody's attitudes here are provoked by your posts. Our attitudes are mostly the product of long experience with attitudes like yours. I know it will probably give me one big headache from the kinds of attitudes it's likely to provoke here.... Of course, we don't often experience somebody who writes as well as you do while thinking as poorly as you do.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Different orthodoxies have different major doctrines.
Orthodoxy is defined by the major doctrines, such as salvation by faith, the Trinity, and including inspiration and inerrancy.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Then what did Luke investigate?
No, God wrote the Bible, Jesus is the Son of God, the words are all His just as they are God the Father's and God the Holy Spirit's.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
If "false gods" are made up, as many theists claim, did the "real" God inspire men to make them up?
Is humanity the sole source of inspiration for itself, or is God the source?
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Since we're talking about Bible inerrancy, the idea of "deifying" ourselves doesn't make much sense. Recognizing that the Bible is full of errors admits the frailty of the authors.
false gods are simply our inborn nature to deify ourselves one way or another.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The issue is not whether or not there are errors. The point is that if we think there are errors and men are the authors, then we're not exactly "deifying" men, are we?
Assuming for a moment that the story that the books of the Bible is trying to teach involves humanities relationship with One God who eventually made Himself known to all people---what significant errors are there that muddy this thinking or contradict it in any way?
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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herebedragons writes:
Sounds a bit like deifying oneself.
... one's personal understanding of it must also be inerrant....
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
tsig writes:
It may indicate that you sincerely believe in your religion; it does not in any way indicate that there's any truth to it.
I'd say that dying for your religion rather proves your sincerity
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
That's exactly the point: how absolutely positively sure you are has nothing to do with whether or not it's true. You can be absolutely, positively sure of a lie. That's why every religion has its martyrs.
No, you do not die that way just out of a superficial belief -- you KNOW it's the truth.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
I know your point is the opposite. Your point is wrong. Of course my point was the opposite.... If belief was evidence of truth there, why are there so many people dying for so many different "truths"?
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
That's what I said. If you're going to quibble about "some" or "many", I'll concede - for the purpose of discussion - that a majority of people who die for their beliefs are Christians. ...there are some others who died instead of give up their belief but the Christians far outnumber those. But that doesn't address my point: As long as there is anybody else who is willing to die for his beliefs, the willingness to die for a belief is NOT a reliable indicator of the "truth" of those beliefs. It may give you a statistically satisfying conclusion but not an infallible one.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Don't forget that a lot of Christians have recanted too.
I'd still like to know about how Muslims would deal with the rack when threatened with it or recanting.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Limitations and imperfection are realistic - versus a noble agape sort of love, which is not.
The problem I have with human consensus is that it is quite limited. Always imperfect. And sort of a touchy feely altruism versus a noble agape sort of love. Phat writes:
If there was a god, I personally think we could know more about him by looking at a duck than by reading the Bible.
IF The Bible is simply human agenda and human opinion/belief, how can GOD be known?
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