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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men?
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 383 of 2241 (738897)
10-17-2014 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 373 by Phat
10-16-2014 4:35 PM


Re: Back To The Topic
Phat writes:
Were the individuals who collectively were responsible for deciding which words and books were to be allowed in the popular Bible motivated through prayer and a life where not just the mind and emotions but the daily will surrendered to God? Or...were they motivated by other spirits or vibes or intentions?
I don't see what "surrendering to the will of God" has to do with the topic. God could have dictated the Bible, word for word, in King James English, and the scribes could have written it down faithfully regardless of any ulterior motives or intentions. We have reporters today who faithfully report the news even if they don't believe a word of what the protagonists are saying.
The problem with inerrancy is that the content doesn't match reality. Therefore, either the source didn't know what he was talking about or he was reported inaccurately. The reasons why he may have been reported inaccurately are not really relevant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by Phat, posted 10-16-2014 4:35 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 407 of 2241 (738954)
10-18-2014 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 395 by Faith
10-18-2014 11:54 AM


Re: Try truth Faith? jar?
Faith writes:
Oh make it three: Jesus quoted from every book in the Old Testament, quoted it as THE WORD OF GOD.
So give us references where He quoted from Nahum, Obadiah, or Esther. Or Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1 Samuel, 2 Samuel, 1 Kings, 1 Chronicles, Job, Ezra, Nehemiah, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Joel, Amos, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, or Haggai.
(I got these examples from a Catholic website, by the way, so here's yor chance to prove them wrong.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by Faith, posted 10-18-2014 11:54 AM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 427 of 2241 (739018)
10-19-2014 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by Faith
10-18-2014 10:49 PM


Re: Could you just try to recognize that I AM being honest?
Faith writes:
I know it will probably give me one big headache from the kinds of attitudes it's likely to provoke here....
Just FYI, I don't think anybody's attitudes here are provoked by your posts. Our attitudes are mostly the product of long experience with attitudes like yours.
Of course, we don't often experience somebody who writes as well as you do while thinking as poorly as you do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by Faith, posted 10-18-2014 10:49 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 479 of 2241 (739281)
10-22-2014 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 478 by Faith
10-22-2014 12:25 PM


Re: Some sermons on inspiration and inerrancy that back me up
Faith writes:
Orthodoxy is defined by the major doctrines, such as salvation by faith, the Trinity, and including inspiration and inerrancy.
Different orthodoxies have different major doctrines.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 478 by Faith, posted 10-22-2014 12:25 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 503 of 2241 (739495)
10-24-2014 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 502 by Faith
10-24-2014 1:09 PM


Faith writes:
No, God wrote the Bible, Jesus is the Son of God, the words are all His just as they are God the Father's and God the Holy Spirit's.
Then what did Luke investigate?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by Faith, posted 10-24-2014 1:09 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 535 of 2241 (739726)
10-27-2014 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 532 by Phat
10-27-2014 10:24 AM


Re: What Are We Trying To Prove, Anyway?
Phat writes:
Is humanity the sole source of inspiration for itself, or is God the source?
If "false gods" are made up, as many theists claim, did the "real" God inspire men to make them up?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 532 by Phat, posted 10-27-2014 10:24 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 536 by Phat, posted 10-27-2014 12:40 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 537 of 2241 (739728)
10-27-2014 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 536 by Phat
10-27-2014 12:40 PM


Re: What Are We Trying To Prove, Anyway?
Phat writes:
false gods are simply our inborn nature to deify ourselves one way or another.
Since we're talking about Bible inerrancy, the idea of "deifying" ourselves doesn't make much sense. Recognizing that the Bible is full of errors admits the frailty of the authors.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 536 by Phat, posted 10-27-2014 12:40 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 538 by Phat, posted 10-27-2014 12:54 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 540 of 2241 (739731)
10-27-2014 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 538 by Phat
10-27-2014 12:54 PM


Re: What Are We Trying To Prove, Anyway?
Phat writes:
Assuming for a moment that the story that the books of the Bible is trying to teach involves humanities relationship with One God who eventually made Himself known to all people---what significant errors are there that muddy this thinking or contradict it in any way?
The issue is not whether or not there are errors. The point is that if we think there are errors and men are the authors, then we're not exactly "deifying" men, are we?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 538 by Phat, posted 10-27-2014 12:54 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 661 by Phat, posted 11-26-2014 12:50 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 544 of 2241 (739739)
10-27-2014 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by herebedragons
10-27-2014 1:16 PM


Re: mike comes like a thief in the night.
herebedragons writes:
... one's personal understanding of it must also be inerrant....
Sounds a bit like deifying oneself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by herebedragons, posted 10-27-2014 1:16 PM herebedragons has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 600 of 2241 (742035)
11-16-2014 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 597 by tsig
11-15-2014 1:05 PM


Re: Some sermons on inspiration and inerrancy that back me up
tsig writes:
I'd say that dying for your religion rather proves your sincerity
It may indicate that you sincerely believe in your religion; it does not in any way indicate that there's any truth to it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 597 by tsig, posted 11-15-2014 1:05 PM tsig has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 601 by Faith, posted 11-16-2014 2:38 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 602 of 2241 (742048)
11-16-2014 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 601 by Faith
11-16-2014 2:38 PM


Re: Some sermons on inspiration and inerrancy that back me up
Faith writes:
No, you do not die that way just out of a superficial belief -- you KNOW it's the truth.
That's exactly the point: how absolutely positively sure you are has nothing to do with whether or not it's true. You can be absolutely, positively sure of a lie. That's why every religion has its martyrs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 601 by Faith, posted 11-16-2014 2:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 603 by Faith, posted 11-16-2014 6:07 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 605 of 2241 (742124)
11-17-2014 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 603 by Faith
11-16-2014 6:07 PM


Re: Some sermons on inspiration and inerrancy that back me up
Faith writes:
Of course my point was the opposite....
I know your point is the opposite. Your point is wrong.
If belief was evidence of truth there, why are there so many people dying for so many different "truths"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 603 by Faith, posted 11-16-2014 6:07 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 606 by deerbreh, posted 11-24-2014 2:52 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 607 by Faith, posted 11-24-2014 3:00 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 643 of 2241 (742887)
11-25-2014 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 607 by Faith
11-24-2014 3:00 PM


Re: Some sermons on inspiration and inerrancy that back me up
Faith writes:
...there are some others who died instead of give up their belief but the Christians far outnumber those.
That's what I said. If you're going to quibble about "some" or "many", I'll concede - for the purpose of discussion - that a majority of people who die for their beliefs are Christians.
But that doesn't address my point: As long as there is anybody else who is willing to die for his beliefs, the willingness to die for a belief is NOT a reliable indicator of the "truth" of those beliefs. It may give you a statistically satisfying conclusion but not an infallible one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 607 by Faith, posted 11-24-2014 3:00 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 648 by Faith, posted 11-25-2014 3:42 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 660 of 2241 (743009)
11-26-2014 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 648 by Faith
11-25-2014 3:42 PM


Re: Some sermons on inspiration and inerrancy that back me up
Faith writes:
I'd still like to know about how Muslims would deal with the rack when threatened with it or recanting.
Don't forget that a lot of Christians have recanted too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 648 by Faith, posted 11-25-2014 3:42 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 665 of 2241 (743147)
11-27-2014 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 661 by Phat
11-26-2014 12:50 PM


Re: What Are We Trying To Prove, Anyway?
Phat writes:
The problem I have with human consensus is that it is quite limited. Always imperfect. And sort of a touchy feely altruism versus a noble agape sort of love.
Limitations and imperfection are realistic - versus a noble agape sort of love, which is not.
Phat writes:
IF The Bible is simply human agenda and human opinion/belief, how can GOD be known?
If there was a god, I personally think we could know more about him by looking at a duck than by reading the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 661 by Phat, posted 11-26-2014 12:50 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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