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Author Topic:   Fountains of the deep, new evidence
Taz
Member (Idle past 2526 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 1 of 106 (699410)
05-17-2013 11:45 AM


For years, we creationists have been pointing out that the waters of the flood came from the fountains of the deep as described by the bible. Evilutionists have been arguing that water couldn't exist that deep at that pressure.

Well, I was websurfing last night while praying and God directed me to this.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...7_0307_waterworld.html

Based on laboratory experiments, where researchers heated a cocktail of rock minerals to a whopping 2900 degrees Fahrenheit and compress them to a whopping pressure of 3 mil psi, replicating the conditions deep within the earth somewhere in the mantle, the researchers concluded that more water may exist inn the earth's mantle than the water on the surface to as much as 5 times more.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/...1029/2012EO320008/abstract

http://www.livescience.com/...ge-ocean-discovered-earth.html

A seismologist, Michael Wysession, at Washington University in St. Louis and his former graduate student Jesse Laurence went through 600,000 seismograms and with the help from the holy spirit discovered a large ocean deep in the Earth's mantle underneath Asia. The body of water is said to be at least the size of the Arctic Ocean.

What say you now, atheists?

Ok, I admit I don't know jack about geology. Who cares to shed some light into this?

Edited by Taz, : No reason given.


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Admin
Director
Posts: 12788
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 2 of 106 (699411)
05-17-2013 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
05-17-2013 11:45 AM


Could you summarize what the websites are saying?

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 2526 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 3 of 106 (699412)
05-19-2013 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
05-17-2013 1:11 PM


You always procrastinate?

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AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 106 (699413)
05-19-2013 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
05-17-2013 1:11 PM


Fountains Of The Deep Mind
Taz writes:

Well, I was websurfing last night while praying and God directed me to this.

Perhaps humor, Percy?

Add by edit: I watched that video and my inner fundie jumped for joy! Taz, God uses donkeys and atheists for His glory!

I'll promote him, Percy.

Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.


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AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 106 (699415)
05-19-2013 8:04 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Fountains of the deep, new evidence thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 106 (699420)
05-19-2013 11:24 AM


Is this a joke?
Why isn't this thread in the Geology Forum.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 7 of 106 (699424)
05-19-2013 12:04 PM


Basic thermodynamics
I remind you of what Walt Brown forgot; there is a well established science of thermodynamics and an extremely well established science of the properties of water. Ever hear of the Age of Steam?

Releasing that "water" (see below), dropping the pressure from thousands of psi miles below the surface to atmospheric pressure, would immediately flash it to super-superheated steam. Using what we call a "control volume" concept, think of an imaginary box buried in the earth, with the water coming in one end and the super-superheated steam coming out the other. There's nothing created or destroyed inside the box, and steam at atmospheric pressure occupies a lot more volume than liquid water, so the steam has to come out a freakin' boatload faster than the water comes in, eroding the cr*p out of the sides of whatever it's flowing through.

Glenn Morton did some calculations for Brown's early model (see part 3). The result is going to be about the same for any scenario you propose:


  • The steam is going to come out at supersonic speed, almost certainly above escape velocity. So all the "water" will wind up out it space.
  • A phenomenon called "entrainment" will remove most or all of the atmosphere along with these jets of super-superheated steam, and probably all the water on the surface of the Earth, in windstorms that make Katrina look like a butterfly burp.
  • Even if you figure out a way for the water to wind up on the surface of the Earth (if you want it to fall back don't forget to convert its potential energy to heat), the mixing of the atmosphere with this steam by entrainment is going to raise the temperature and pressure at the surface of the Earth to hundreds of degrees F (or C) and tens of atmospheres.
  • Noah and crew are parboiled, torn to pieces by unimaginable winds, and well on their way to the farthest reaches of the Universe. In little teeny pieces, of course.

If you read the scientific articles on this subject, you'll see that there aren't any puddles of water in the mantle. Individual water molecules are stored in hydrated minerals and crystal defects or dissolved in minerals. It doesn't come out as liquid or gaseous water spontaneously. Nor is it easy to remove

So, what about that heat problem? And the supersonic super-superheated steam? What mechanism extracted the water from its bonds? And how did the mantle get connected to the surface?

It just doesn't work.

See Walt Brown’s Hydropate Theory for a brief critique of the even-more-ridiculous scenario Walt Brown came up with to "escape" (hee hee hee) these issues. We've already hashed a lot of this out in the now read-only Where did the water come from and where did it go? thread.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

Edited by JonF, : spelling


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Taz
Member (Idle past 2526 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 8 of 106 (699425)
05-19-2013 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by JonF
05-19-2013 12:04 PM


Re: Basic thermodynamics
JonF writes:

...scenario Walt Bron came up with...


You misspelled Brown's name, making your entire argument invalid.

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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 9 of 106 (699426)
05-19-2013 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Taz
05-19-2013 12:30 PM


Re: Basic thermodynamics
Taz: you failed to type "Neener! Neener! Neener!," making your rebuttal invalid, too.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6637
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 10 of 106 (699431)
05-19-2013 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by JonF
05-19-2013 12:04 PM


Re: Basic thermodynamics
Releasing that "water" (see below), dropping the pressure from thousands of psi miles below the surface to atmospheric pressure, would immediately flash it to super-superheated steam.

You missed the second site; the second arctic ocean. The arctic ocean, as everyone should know by now is cold, cold, cold. That would have taken care of the steam problem from down there before the water even reached the surface and reverted, instentanously, to normal atmosphereic pressures and about the tempertur of a nice worm tropicle inlet.

I know this was more than 4000 years ago but I sure hope that second arctic ocean has gotten all its cold back by now. At the rate we're melting the first one it won't be to long now before we will have to go get the second and put it into place. I'm hoping it will be frozed over like the first one used to.

And that sismolegist fella, I'm hoping he's looking for another antartica because we're going to need a new one of them soon 2.

Edited by AZPaul3, : I'm not sure.


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JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 11 of 106 (699433)
05-19-2013 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by AZPaul3
05-19-2013 3:11 PM


Re: Basic thermodynamics
Show your calculations.

Are you proposing that the "fountains" blew out only through the poles?


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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6637
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 12 of 106 (699434)
05-19-2013 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by JonF
05-19-2013 3:46 PM


Re: Basic thermodynamics
Show your calculations.

Calculations? Don't need any calculations. Its all in the news and stuff about how this globle worming is happening all over the world. They showed pictures of the artic ocean all melting and watery and the showed antartica with all those big ice chuncks breaking off of it.

Its real, man. Its all over the webs 2.


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 13 of 106 (699438)
05-19-2013 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by JonF
05-19-2013 3:46 PM


Re: Basic thermodynamics
Are you proposing that the "fountains" blew out only through the poles?

Probly through the axle holes. A bearing musta blowed out.


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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 286 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 14 of 106 (699442)
05-19-2013 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by JonF
05-19-2013 12:04 PM


Re: Basic thermodynamics
Well you're talking about the atheist laws of thermodynamics. As we all know, Bible-believing Christians have a completely different set of laws of thermodynamics.

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 1341 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 15 of 106 (699444)
05-19-2013 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Dr Adequate
05-19-2013 10:43 PM


Re: Basic thermodynamics
Well you're talking about the atheist laws of thermodynamics. As we all know, Bible-believing Christians have a completely different set of laws of thermodynamics.

On another website a creationist went to great lengths to explain why the law of "thermal documents" was wrong (and this was before auto-correct).

Maybe that's what the aforementioned "Bible-believing Christians" are referring to?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


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