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Author Topic:   Rape and evolution
Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 2958 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 33 of 84 (368526)
12-08-2006 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by crashfrog
12-07-2006 10:08 PM


Just some nits....
While I generally agree with your statement, the prof in me has to point out an error or two...
Crash writes:
I don't think you're largely wrong about most of the mammal world, but primates, including humans, have to be understood to be the exception, here, for a number of reasons.
Primate females have clitorises, for instance, and experience the same pleasurable sensation of orgasm that males do, which they can achieve at any time, even during their non-fertile period.
First, the clitoris is found in all female mammals not just primates. There is evidence that many non-human (and non primate) females experience somethin akin to orgasm from clitoral stimulation. At the very least they are probably capable of such given the associated nerve structures.
Crash writes:
Primates are the only mammals that do not experience estrous; rather, primates ovulate cryptically
Also, most primate females advertise estrus. The groups that do not are the exception and are, (IIRC across the board) socially and/or sexually monogamous. Given this it is likely that cryptic ovulation evolves to reinforce the social system (and, IIRC, there are at least 6 good hypotheses about this).

Wanda: To call you stupid would be an insult to stupid people. I've known sheep who could outwit you. I've worn dresses with higher IQs, but you think you're an intellectual, don't you, ape?
Otto: Apes don't read philosophy.
Wanda: Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it.
"A Fish Called Wanda"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by crashfrog, posted 12-07-2006 10:08 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by crashfrog, posted 12-08-2006 5:23 PM Lithodid-Man has not replied

  
Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 2958 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 36 of 84 (368547)
12-08-2006 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by iceage
12-08-2006 5:29 PM


Re: Evolution and rape
iceage writes:
Why did you misrepresent your own source?
NJ isn't the first to do this with Thornhill's works. Years ago on public radio I listened to Randy Thornhill discussing this book . The show also featured a sociobiologist who was heavily critical of it. She kept making the same error as we see often here, that evolutionary terms such as successful imply moral rightness. I can not imagine how frustrating the exchange must have been for Dr. Thornhill. All he could do was repeat, "But that is not what I say..." in various combinations. His adversary seemed to have not read (or at least not understood) the book at all. She also seemed completely unaware that this wasn't some out of the blue idea, it predates Thornhill plus he has published about the biology of rape for 20 years before the book in question!
On top of that the mediator ended the discussion with something like "We have been talking with Randy Thornhill who claims that rape is normal and natural and can be beneficial" or some such garbage (badly paraphrased but the gist is the same). Implying that he believes that rape is good because there are selective advantages to rapists. Just really sad, ignorance runs deep in all circles!

Wanda: To call you stupid would be an insult to stupid people. I've known sheep who could outwit you. I've worn dresses with higher IQs, but you think you're an intellectual, don't you, ape?
Otto: Apes don't read philosophy.
Wanda: Yes they do, Otto, they just don't understand it.
"A Fish Called Wanda"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by iceage, posted 12-08-2006 5:29 PM iceage has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Archer Opteryx, posted 12-10-2006 9:12 AM Lithodid-Man has not replied

  
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