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Author Topic:   Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 46 of 169 (701771)
06-26-2013 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Heathen
06-25-2013 2:40 AM


Re: The first to see Jesus after He'd risen
Heathen writes:
Either the bible is inerrant truth and the word of god and therefore should not contradict itself, or, it is is the fallible word of fallible men and therefore cannot be taken as truth. pick a side and stick with it.
Ravi has a decent answer. A lot of the infidels who attack scripture have as a motive discrediting it. They are not honestly seeking to understand scripture---they already have their minds made up that God isnt real.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Heathen, posted 06-25-2013 2:40 AM Heathen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Heathen, posted 06-26-2013 2:52 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 50 by onifre, posted 06-26-2013 1:17 PM Phat has replied

  
Heathen
Member (Idle past 1283 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


(1)
Message 47 of 169 (701774)
06-26-2013 2:52 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
06-26-2013 2:32 AM


Re: The first to see Jesus after He'd risen
A lot of the infidels who attack scripture have as a motive discrediting it. They are not honestly seeking to understand scripture---they already have their minds made up that God isnt real.
And you already have your mind made up that god is real. on what basis?
I come from the stand point that there is no god until i see evidence to the contrary, so, yes. My mind, at the moment, is made up, there is no evidence, not one single shred of evidence for the existence of god so I work on the premise there is no god. Got anything that will change my mind?? anything at all?
Scripture has been shown to be misguided, inaccurate, misleading and frankly ridiculous. Current [scientific] knowledge debunks much of what is contained therein.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 06-26-2013 2:32 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 48 of 169 (701776)
06-26-2013 4:13 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Tangle
06-25-2013 1:53 PM


Re: The first to see Jesus after He'd risen
Have you thought about a career in law or politics?
That would be relevant if I were making up the answer myself but I'm giving what I understand to be the commonly accepted explanation, and it makes sense. Most supposed contradictions in the Bible, even on the level of unimportant incidental details, can be reconciled by merely understanding that the different writers are writing from different vantage points, so that you can put all the different testimonies together into one picture.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Tangle, posted 06-25-2013 1:53 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(3)
Message 49 of 169 (701777)
06-26-2013 4:23 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Faith
06-26-2013 4:13 AM


Re: The first to see Jesus after He'd risen

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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 Message 48 by Faith, posted 06-26-2013 4:13 AM Faith has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 50 of 169 (701811)
06-26-2013 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
06-26-2013 2:32 AM


Re: The first to see Jesus after He'd risen
Ravi has a decent answer. A lot of the infidels who attack scripture have as a motive discrediting it.
Infidels? Are you really supporting someone who calls those who question the veracity of the Bible infidels?
Or was that your word?
They are not honestly seeking to understand scripture---they already have their minds made up that God isnt real.
This is what people say when they believe dumb shit and everyone else around them has pointed out why it is wrong. There is nothing special about the way YOU read the scriptures and the way I do. Just because you fallaciously put the cart before the horse doesn't mean the rest of us are going to.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 06-26-2013 2:32 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 51 of 169 (701882)
06-27-2013 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Taq
06-06-2013 8:57 PM


Re: Who made who?
Tag
No argument but it is logical to create God in our image.
Most if not all the Gods that we have invented look like us and hate everyone we do. They were mostly androgynous but that is close to what the inventors wanted us to think.
Regards
DL

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 Message 12 by Taq, posted 06-06-2013 8:57 PM Taq has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 52 of 169 (701883)
06-27-2013 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Iblis
06-16-2013 3:50 PM


Re: The Good News
Iblis
Thanks for the thumbs up.
Regards
DL

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 Message 17 by Iblis, posted 06-16-2013 3:50 PM Iblis has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 53 of 169 (701886)
06-27-2013 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
06-20-2013 5:04 AM


Re: The Trinity
Faith
If Jesus was human and scripture say that all humans are born in sin, and scriptures also say that Jesus had to learn by his mistakes to be perfected, then either Jesus could not die because he was without sin or he was a sinner like all of us as he too had to learn.
Seems that you want your cake and it too.
You cannot have it both ways unless you suspend logic and reason.
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 06-20-2013 5:04 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Faith, posted 06-27-2013 12:38 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 54 of 169 (701888)
06-27-2013 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Greatest I am
06-27-2013 12:33 PM


Re: The Trinity
Jesus did not inherit the sin nature from the Fall because that is inherited through the father not the mother and His father was God the Father. This is standard theology back to the apostles, not something I'm making up. Jesus was the only sinless man since before Adam fell. Only a sinless man could be the unblemished sacrifice necessary to pay for human sin.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Greatest I am, posted 06-27-2013 12:33 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by jar, posted 06-27-2013 1:33 PM Faith has replied
 Message 61 by NoNukes, posted 06-27-2013 4:48 PM Faith has replied
 Message 162 by Greatest I am, posted 07-08-2013 3:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 55 of 169 (701898)
06-27-2013 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Faith
06-27-2013 12:38 PM


Re: The Trinity
Faith writes:
Jesus did not inherit the sin nature from the Fall because that is inherited through the father not the mother and His father was God the Father.
There is no "Fall" in the Bible. Nor is there any "inheritable sin nature" in the Bible.
Faith writes:
Jesus was the only sinless man since before Adam fell.
Yet the Bible clearly shows examples of Jesus sinning.
I understand that Christianity has often been marketed like your spiel and that spiel is a great way to con the rubes but it is not Biblical.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Faith, posted 06-27-2013 12:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 06-27-2013 3:50 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 56 of 169 (701914)
06-27-2013 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by jar
06-27-2013 1:33 PM


The Fall
jar writes:
There is no "Fall" in the Bible. Nor is there any "inheritable sin nature" in the Bible.
Blue Letter Bible writes:
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:16 And not as [it was] by one that sinned, ... for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, ...
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; ...
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; ...
Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,...
Rom 5:21 ...That as sin hath reigned unto death, ...
jar writes:
Yet the Bible clearly shows examples of Jesus sinning.
Only in your imagination.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by jar, posted 06-27-2013 1:33 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 06-27-2013 3:56 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 57 of 169 (701915)
06-27-2013 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Faith
06-27-2013 3:50 PM


Re: The Fall
You quote Paul yet Paul never says what passages he is using. They certainly don't refer to the Genesis 2&3 fable since that is NOT a Fall according to the God in the story and in fact if anything it is a rise.
You really haven't actually read the Bible have you Faith.
You are also using another of those Bibles that adds words I see.
So much for honesty or a literal Bible.
Now granted Paul did a lot of just making shit up when he was trying to market his new franchise, but the passage in Romans is just another example of unsupported assertion.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 06-27-2013 3:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 06-27-2013 4:06 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 58 of 169 (701916)
06-27-2013 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by jar
06-27-2013 3:56 PM


Re: The Fall
You quote Paul yet Paul never says what passages he is using. They certainly don't refer to the Genesis 2&3 fable since that is NOT a Fall according to the God in the story and in fact if anything it is a rise.
???
Paul is referring to Adam as the one through whom sin entered the world, which obviously refers to what we call the "Fall" or the original disobedience of Adam and Eve, after which all their progeny were born with the sin nature, all of us born in sin, sinners and inclined to sin from birth because of their original sin.
You are also using another of those Bibles that adds words I see. So much for honesty or a literal Bible.
The King James Bible puts extra words in brackets that help the meaning in English although they aren't in the original language because of the difference in structure, which is very honest of them considering that some "translations" don't bother with brackets. Perhaps you aren't aware that languages differ?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 06-27-2013 3:56 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by jar, posted 06-27-2013 4:20 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 59 of 169 (701918)
06-27-2013 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Faith
06-27-2013 4:06 PM


Re: The Fall
If you actually read Genesis 2&3 there is no sin involved. In fact until after Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil they would have been incapable of knowing they should obey God over any other individual, death already existed, there is no sin that is passed down to all men, and in fact as I said, the God character in the story sees just the opposite of man falling, rather man becoming like a god.
If Paul is using the Genesis story as the basis of those passages you took out of context, then Paul is simply wrong. mistaken or making shit up.
There is nothing in Genesis 2&3 that says or even implies that "all their progeny were born with the sin nature, all of us born in sin, sinners and inclined to sin from birth because of their original sin."
You are simply making that up or repeating stuff someone made up and sold you.
If you would like I will, as you know, be happy to post all of Genesis 2&3 so you can actually read it.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 06-27-2013 4:06 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Faith, posted 06-27-2013 4:35 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 60 of 169 (701920)
06-27-2013 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by jar
06-27-2013 4:20 PM


Re: The Fall
If you actually read Genesis 2&3 there is no sin involved.
\
God said not to eat of that particular tree. They disobeyed and ate of that tree. Disobedience of God is sin. Odd that anyone should have to spell out something so obvious.
In fact until after Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil they would have been incapable of knowing they should obey God over any other individual, death already existed, there is no sin that is passed down to all men, and in fact as I said, the God character in the story sees just the opposite of man falling, rather man becoming like a god.
Clearly they knew it was sin and yet they did it. God said if they ate of that tree they would die, showing that until that point there was no death. The Romans verses I quoted are quite clear that death was passed down to all of us because of the original sin of the first man Adam.
There is nothing in Genesis 2&3 that says or even implies that "all their progeny were born with the sin nature, all of us born in sin, sinners and inclined to sin from birth because of their original sin."
It does make it clear that death entered as a result of their disobedience. God told them they would die if they ate of the tree so we know that death did result from their eating of the tree. Beyond that, we are to understand the Old Testament through the New. It often takes the New Testament to bring out the meanings of the Old.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by jar, posted 06-27-2013 4:20 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by jar, posted 06-27-2013 5:21 PM Faith has replied

  
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