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Author | Topic: Is it egotistical to think that a God would die for you? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Heathen writes: Ravi has a decent answer. A lot of the infidels who attack scripture have as a motive discrediting it. They are not honestly seeking to understand scripture---they already have their minds made up that God isnt real. Either the bible is inerrant truth and the word of god and therefore should not contradict itself, or, it is is the fallible word of fallible men and therefore cannot be taken as truth. pick a side and stick with it.
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Heathen Member (Idle past 1283 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined:
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A lot of the infidels who attack scripture have as a motive discrediting it. They are not honestly seeking to understand scripture---they already have their minds made up that God isnt real.
And you already have your mind made up that god is real. on what basis? I come from the stand point that there is no god until i see evidence to the contrary, so, yes. My mind, at the moment, is made up, there is no evidence, not one single shred of evidence for the existence of god so I work on the premise there is no god. Got anything that will change my mind?? anything at all? Scripture has been shown to be misguided, inaccurate, misleading and frankly ridiculous. Current [scientific] knowledge debunks much of what is contained therein.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Have you thought about a career in law or politics? That would be relevant if I were making up the answer myself but I'm giving what I understand to be the commonly accepted explanation, and it makes sense. Most supposed contradictions in the Bible, even on the level of unimportant incidental details, can be reconciled by merely understanding that the different writers are writing from different vantage points, so that you can put all the different testimonies together into one picture.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
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onifre Member (Idle past 2951 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined:
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Ravi has a decent answer. A lot of the infidels who attack scripture have as a motive discrediting it. Infidels? Are you really supporting someone who calls those who question the veracity of the Bible infidels? Or was that your word?
They are not honestly seeking to understand scripture---they already have their minds made up that God isnt real. This is what people say when they believe dumb shit and everyone else around them has pointed out why it is wrong. There is nothing special about the way YOU read the scriptures and the way I do. Just because you fallaciously put the cart before the horse doesn't mean the rest of us are going to. - Oni
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 274 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Tag
No argument but it is logical to create God in our image. Most if not all the Gods that we have invented look like us and hate everyone we do. They were mostly androgynous but that is close to what the inventors wanted us to think. RegardsDL
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 274 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Iblis
Thanks for the thumbs up. RegardsDL
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Greatest I am Member (Idle past 274 days) Posts: 1676 Joined: |
Faith
If Jesus was human and scripture say that all humans are born in sin, and scriptures also say that Jesus had to learn by his mistakes to be perfected, then either Jesus could not die because he was without sin or he was a sinner like all of us as he too had to learn. Seems that you want your cake and it too. You cannot have it both ways unless you suspend logic and reason. RegardsDL Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Jesus did not inherit the sin nature from the Fall because that is inherited through the father not the mother and His father was God the Father. This is standard theology back to the apostles, not something I'm making up. Jesus was the only sinless man since before Adam fell. Only a sinless man could be the unblemished sacrifice necessary to pay for human sin.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Jesus did not inherit the sin nature from the Fall because that is inherited through the father not the mother and His father was God the Father. There is no "Fall" in the Bible. Nor is there any "inheritable sin nature" in the Bible.
Faith writes: Jesus was the only sinless man since before Adam fell. Yet the Bible clearly shows examples of Jesus sinning. I understand that Christianity has often been marketed like your spiel and that spiel is a great way to con the rubes but it is not Biblical.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
jar writes: There is no "Fall" in the Bible. Nor is there any "inheritable sin nature" in the Bible. Blue Letter Bible writes: Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:Rom 5:16 And not as [it was] by one that sinned, ... for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, ... Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; ... Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; ... Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,... Rom 5:21 ...That as sin hath reigned unto death, ... jar writes: Yet the Bible clearly shows examples of Jesus sinning. Only in your imagination. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You quote Paul yet Paul never says what passages he is using. They certainly don't refer to the Genesis 2&3 fable since that is NOT a Fall according to the God in the story and in fact if anything it is a rise.
You really haven't actually read the Bible have you Faith. You are also using another of those Bibles that adds words I see. So much for honesty or a literal Bible. Now granted Paul did a lot of just making shit up when he was trying to market his new franchise, but the passage in Romans is just another example of unsupported assertion.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You quote Paul yet Paul never says what passages he is using. They certainly don't refer to the Genesis 2&3 fable since that is NOT a Fall according to the God in the story and in fact if anything it is a rise. ???Paul is referring to Adam as the one through whom sin entered the world, which obviously refers to what we call the "Fall" or the original disobedience of Adam and Eve, after which all their progeny were born with the sin nature, all of us born in sin, sinners and inclined to sin from birth because of their original sin. You are also using another of those Bibles that adds words I see. So much for honesty or a literal Bible. The King James Bible puts extra words in brackets that help the meaning in English although they aren't in the original language because of the difference in structure, which is very honest of them considering that some "translations" don't bother with brackets. Perhaps you aren't aware that languages differ? Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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If you actually read Genesis 2&3 there is no sin involved. In fact until after Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil they would have been incapable of knowing they should obey God over any other individual, death already existed, there is no sin that is passed down to all men, and in fact as I said, the God character in the story sees just the opposite of man falling, rather man becoming like a god.
If Paul is using the Genesis story as the basis of those passages you took out of context, then Paul is simply wrong. mistaken or making shit up. There is nothing in Genesis 2&3 that says or even implies that "all their progeny were born with the sin nature, all of us born in sin, sinners and inclined to sin from birth because of their original sin." You are simply making that up or repeating stuff someone made up and sold you. If you would like I will, as you know, be happy to post all of Genesis 2&3 so you can actually read it.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
If you actually read Genesis 2&3 there is no sin involved. \ God said not to eat of that particular tree. They disobeyed and ate of that tree. Disobedience of God is sin. Odd that anyone should have to spell out something so obvious.
In fact until after Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil they would have been incapable of knowing they should obey God over any other individual, death already existed, there is no sin that is passed down to all men, and in fact as I said, the God character in the story sees just the opposite of man falling, rather man becoming like a god. Clearly they knew it was sin and yet they did it. God said if they ate of that tree they would die, showing that until that point there was no death. The Romans verses I quoted are quite clear that death was passed down to all of us because of the original sin of the first man Adam.
There is nothing in Genesis 2&3 that says or even implies that "all their progeny were born with the sin nature, all of us born in sin, sinners and inclined to sin from birth because of their original sin." It does make it clear that death entered as a result of their disobedience. God told them they would die if they ate of the tree so we know that death did result from their eating of the tree. Beyond that, we are to understand the Old Testament through the New. It often takes the New Testament to bring out the meanings of the Old. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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