Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9073 total)
502 online now:
Newest Member: MidwestPaul
Post Volume: Total: 893,306 Year: 4,418/6,534 Month: 632/900 Week: 156/182 Day: 36/27 Hour: 4/6

Announcements: Security Update Released


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Semiotic argument for ID
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 424
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 66 of 223 (724930)
04-22-2014 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by New Cat's Eye
04-22-2014 10:22 AM


It would seem to be the classic, and most rudimentary semantic error - mistaking the word for the thing. DNA is not code for chemistry, it is chemistry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-22-2014 10:22 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-22-2014 6:18 PM Capt Stormfield has taken no action

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 424
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 191 of 223 (725379)
04-26-2014 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Ed67
04-25-2014 11:32 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
And what did University of Washington researchers mean when they use the word "code" in this 2013 research report?

quote:Since the genetic code was deciphered in the 1960s, scientists have assumed that it was used exclusively to write information about proteins. UW scientists were stunned to discover that genomes use the genetic code to write two separate languages. One describes how proteins are made, and the other instructs the cell on how genes are controlled. One language is written on top of the other, which is why the second language remained hidden for so long.

http://www.washington.edu/...-double-meaning-in-genetic-code

You really and truly should try to understand 2 simple ideas: metaphor and equivocation. Your apparent inability to recognize either of these concepts in the wild is causing you to look like a troll.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Ed67, posted 04-25-2014 11:32 PM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Ed67, posted 04-26-2014 9:54 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 424
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 195 of 223 (725410)
04-26-2014 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Ed67
04-26-2014 9:54 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
Half right, as befits your wit.

The researchers, like all scientists, are using metaphor when they describe DNA as a code. You are equivocating in most your attempts to herd reality off a cliff with language.

And thank you for affirming the inverse relationship between use of smilies and "interesting".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Ed67, posted 04-26-2014 9:54 PM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 3:44 AM Capt Stormfield has replied
 Message 200 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 12:51 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 424
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(2)
Message 199 of 223 (725447)
04-27-2014 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by Ed67
04-27-2014 3:44 AM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
Sure. I'll give you 2 facts:

1 - I am a native English speaker. I understand these things.

2 - You have avoided every question asking you to explain your claim that there is a difference between the chemistry of DNA and chemistry that doesn't contain a code. That is internet code for "I'm not honest".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 3:44 AM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 12:58 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 424
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 202 of 223 (725458)
04-27-2014 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Ed67
04-27-2014 12:51 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
Researchers are big boys and can speak for themselves. If they mean 'metaphorical code' they will say it.

So how does the DNA hold the pen when it "writes" the code? What kind of ink does it use? After all, if the authors meant "write in a metaphoric sense" they would say that, wouldn't they?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 12:51 PM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 1:05 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 424
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 204 of 223 (725461)
04-27-2014 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Ed67
04-27-2014 12:58 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
So you prefer to launch a personal attack on my honesty rather than present FACTS to back up your assertion.

No attack, it is an simple observation of your behavior. If you are honest, go back and answer the question that has been posed several times. Honest is as honest does.

You might also answer the question about how DNA "writes".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 12:58 PM Ed67 has taken no action

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 424
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 206 of 223 (725463)
04-27-2014 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Ed67
04-27-2014 1:05 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
The DNA didn't write the code,

Ah, I see. You're not familiar with the article you linked to. Quelle surprise. Let me help. Here is a quote from the lead author of the paper:

"The fact that the genetic code can simultaneously write two kinds of information..."

Note that he is referring to the code doing the writing. According to you, he must mean it in a literal sense, since as you say:

Yes, they would.

...say it was a metaphor if that's what it was. So, how does the DNA hold the pen?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 1:05 PM Ed67 has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-27-2014 1:23 PM Capt Stormfield has taken no action

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 424
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 207 of 223 (725464)
04-27-2014 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Capt Stormfield
04-27-2014 1:15 PM


Re: The plain truth about the function of DNA
And in your word salad...

Actually my replies tend to be rather terse, and, as befits their target, couched in fairly simple language. Quite the opposite of word salad.

But it's kind of cute the way you mimic the grown-ups language. Sort of like a little boy standing in his daddy's shoes, a fedora covering half his head, pretending to shave with whipped cream and a toothbrush handle. So do please carry on.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Capt Stormfield, posted 04-27-2014 1:15 PM Capt Stormfield has taken no action

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 424
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(1)
Message 211 of 223 (725475)
04-27-2014 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Ed67
04-27-2014 3:10 PM


Re: AZPaul3 Reveals Contreversy in the Darwinian Camp
You might try reading the WHOLE article...

Wise words. You might consider reading the abstract of the paper itself instead of just the PR fluff about the paper.

"Genomes contain both a genetic code specifying amino acids and a regulatory code specifying transcription factor (TF) recognition sequences. We used genomic deoxyribonuclease I footprinting to map nucleotide resolution TF occupancy across the human exome in 81 diverse cell types. We found that ~15% of human codons are dual-use codons (“duons”) that simultaneously specify both amino acids and TF recognition sites. Duons are highly conserved and have shaped protein evolution, and TF-imposed constraint appears to be a major driver of codon usage bias. Conversely, the regulatory code has been selectively depleted of TFs that recognize stop codons. More than 17% of single-nucleotide variants within duons directly alter TF binding. Pervasive dual encoding of amino acid and regulatory information appears to be a fundamental feature of genome evolution."

They seem to have left out the part about the "code" being designed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 3:10 PM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 3:48 PM Capt Stormfield has replied

  
Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 154 days)
Posts: 424
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 217 of 223 (725493)
04-27-2014 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Ed67
04-27-2014 3:48 PM


Re: AZPaul3 Reveals Contreversy in the Darwinian Camp
You are throwing useless RED HERRINGS into the discussion in an attempt to harass me. Any more of this an I will be reporting this to the administrators.

Hey, I've got an idea, why don't you report that I've invited you to kiss my ass, you unresponsive troll.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Note: Suspension for this and other messages.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Ed67, posted 04-27-2014 3:48 PM Ed67 has taken no action

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022