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Author Topic:   What is the lowest multiplication rate for Humans ?
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 76 of 143 (766940)
08-24-2015 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by goldenlightArchangel
08-23-2015 7:10 PM


Re: It is mathematically proven to be inconsistent but money speaks louder than Math
Crazy writes:

I hoped you ever heard of lowest possible rate of multiplication for Humans to grow and multiply....


The lowest possible rate is negative - i.e. the birth rate less than the death rate. It happens; that's how we get extinctions.

It's just ludicrous to claim that any species "must" multiply at a certain rate.

Crazy writes:

But you know money speaks louder than Math....


No it doesn't. Money is all about math.

This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 143 (766976)
08-24-2015 4:59 PM


Just curious.
Is anyone of the impression that CD7 is sane?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams


  
goldenlightArchangel
Member
Posts: 581
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 78 of 143 (767053)
08-25-2015 3:01 PM


Important: For All Posters ( & Readers ) The One Million Dollar Question
*

Is there a lowest possible rate of multiplication for Humans to grow and multiply ?

*

Pro/For: Yes

*

Con/Against: No

*

Pro/For: The correct answer is Yes because there are samples of lowest possible rate: population x 15 - 80 % per every thousand years.

*

Con/Against: It really doesn't matter since Evolution is not about that.

*

The correct answer implies about whether the Evolutionary explanation ( with regards to the origin of the Human body ) is consistent or not.

*

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : The correct answer implies about whether the Evolutionary explanation ( with regards to the origin of the Human body ) is consistent or not.

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : Pro/For: The correct answer is Yes because there are samples of lowest possible rate: population x 15 - 80 % per every thousand years.


Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 08-26-2015 12:36 AM goldenlightArchangel has responded
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Phat
Member
Posts: 14881
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


(1)
Message 79 of 143 (767092)
08-26-2015 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by goldenlightArchangel
08-25-2015 3:01 PM


Re: Important: For All Posters ( & Readers ) The One Million Dollar Question
So where is the fire? I ran in here expecting something important!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 08-25-2015 3:01 PM goldenlightArchangel has responded

Replies to this message:
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goldenlightArchangel
Member
Posts: 581
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 80 of 143 (767101)
08-26-2015 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Phat
08-26-2015 12:36 AM


Re: Important: For All Posters ( & Readers ) The One Million Dollar Question
*

Hello Phat,

What say you,

Is there a lowest possible rate of multiplication for Humans to grow and multiply ?

*


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 08-26-2015 12:36 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-26-2015 11:45 AM goldenlightArchangel has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 143 (767133)
08-26-2015 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by goldenlightArchangel
08-26-2015 2:43 AM


Re: Important: For All Posters ( & Readers ) The One Million Dollar Question
Is there a lowest possible rate of multiplication for Humans to grow and multiply ?

That would be zero - no growth, no multiplying.

Unless you want to include negatives too? In that case, I suppose the lowest rate would be limited by the population size - you can't loose more people than you have.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 08-26-2015 2:43 AM goldenlightArchangel has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 82 of 143 (767147)
08-26-2015 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by goldenlightArchangel
08-25-2015 3:01 PM


Re: Important: For All Posters ( & Readers ) The One Million Dollar Question
Crazy writes:

The correct answer is Yes because there are samples of lowest possible rate: population x 15 - 80 % per every thousand years.


The correct answer is NO because there are extinctions. Even math doesn't trump reality.

How do you explain extinctions?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 08-25-2015 3:01 PM goldenlightArchangel has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 08-26-2015 7:37 PM ringo has responded

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member
Posts: 581
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 83 of 143 (767192)
08-26-2015 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by New Cat's Eye
08-26-2015 11:45 AM


Re: Important: For All Posters ( & Readers ) The One Million Dollar Question
*

Hello Cat Sci, I hope all is well,

The question is about possibility. It is like asking you, What is the lowest possible rate for Humans to keep on growing and multiplying.

Therefore, the answer to the Million Dollar Question is not zero or negative since zero or negative is not growing nor multiplying either.

*

Have a good job.

*


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-26-2015 11:45 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

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 Message 87 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-26-2015 9:38 PM goldenlightArchangel has responded

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member
Posts: 581
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 84 of 143 (767194)
08-26-2015 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by ringo
08-26-2015 12:39 PM


Re: Important: For All Posters ( & Readers ) The One Million Dollar Question
*

Hello Ringo,

Your reply drifts to far away from the subject since the existence of extinctions has nothing to do with growing and multiplying or a lowest possible rate of multiplication.

*


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by ringo, posted 08-26-2015 12:39 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 858 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 85 of 143 (767197)
08-26-2015 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by goldenlightArchangel
08-26-2015 7:37 PM


Re: Important: For All Posters ( & Readers ) The One Million Dollar Question
Your reply drifts to far away from the subject since the existence of extinctions has nothing to do with growing and multiplying or a lowest possible rate of multiplication.

You don't like extinctions?

Ok, consider this. The rate for human (or any other) population growth or decline is continually variable. As conditions change, so does the rate of growth or decline.

You are trying to apply a fixed rate of growth as if that were real and constant. It isn't.

Have you been smitten by religious belief and assumed that such belief substituted for or superceded scientific knowledge?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.


This message is a reply to:
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goldenlightArchangel
Member
Posts: 581
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 86 of 143 (767198)
08-26-2015 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Phat
08-26-2015 12:36 AM


Re: Important: For All Posters ( & Readers ) The One Million Dollar Question
quote:
Is the Evolutionary theory mathematically proven to be inconsistent?

Yes. It is proven to be an error. Because it is definitely not possible that 2,000 people in Europe would have taken more than 25 thousand years to reach 1 million.

TOO many years and TOO few people! Simple but true! ( O.N.O. WV )

*

Evolutionary theory does much more than stating 'there were people on the range',

It states 'there were people on the range 35,000 years ago', without presenting its chronological basis.

*

Originally quoted from topix for Spotlight: How to Entangle a Juridical Panthera


*

That is, Evolutionary theory must and should not omit what is the Evolutionary proposal for consistency which equates to a lowest possible rate of multiplication for Humans to grow and multiply.

That is why Evolutionary statements are surrealist; they are without chronological evidence with regards to population growth and real life experiences, but just round and round. And round.

*

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : Originally quoted from topix for Spotlight: How to Entangle a Juridical Panthera


This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 143 (767202)
08-26-2015 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by goldenlightArchangel
08-26-2015 7:26 PM


Re: Important: For All Posters ( & Readers ) The One Million Dollar Question
The question is about possibility. It is like asking you, What is the lowest possible rate for Humans to keep on growing and multiplying.

Therefore, the answer to the Million Dollar Question is not zero or negative since zero or negative is not growing nor multiplying either.

Ah, then the answer is derived from the minimum amount of growth being n+1/n where n is the population size.

Edited by Cat Sci, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 08-26-2015 7:26 PM goldenlightArchangel has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 08-26-2015 11:54 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
goldenlightArchangel
Member
Posts: 581
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 88 of 143 (767210)
08-26-2015 11:54 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by New Cat's Eye
08-26-2015 9:38 PM


Re: Important: For All Posters ( & Readers ) The One Million Dollar Question
*

n + 1 is not a multiplication formula.

*

Samples of regular multiplication formula for minimum increase.

population x 25 - 80 % per every thousand years

population x 12 - 85 % per every thousand years

*


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-26-2015 9:38 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

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 Message 89 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-27-2015 9:24 AM goldenlightArchangel has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 143 (767235)
08-27-2015 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by goldenlightArchangel
08-26-2015 11:54 PM


Re: Important: For All Posters ( & Readers ) The One Million Dollar Question
n + 1 is not a multiplication formula.

That doesn't matter.

The minimum amount that a population can increase over some timeframe is one individual.

Constraining the model to your "multiplication formula" is uneccessary.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 08-26-2015 11:54 PM goldenlightArchangel has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 08-28-2015 3:15 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18854
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 90 of 143 (767245)
08-27-2015 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by goldenlightArchangel
08-26-2015 7:37 PM


Re: Important: For All Posters ( & Readers ) The One Million Dollar Question
Crazy writes:

Your reply drifts to far away from the subject since the existence of extinctions has nothing to do with growing and multiplying or a lowest possible rate of multiplication.


On the contrary, what you subtract from the total has as much to do with the running total as what you add. You can have a birth rate as high as you like but it's the combination of birth rate AND death rate that determines the growth (if any) of the population.

What you're doing is the equivalent of calculating your net worth by adding up your income every year and ignoring your expenditures.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by goldenlightArchangel, posted 08-26-2015 7:37 PM goldenlightArchangel has not yet responded

  
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