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Author Topic:   Ruling out an expanding universe with conventional proofs
starlite
Member (Idle past 2914 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 195 of 223 (781292)
04-03-2016 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Theodoric
06-29-2013 12:36 AM


Then it has to be laziness also to claim a singularity existed you know not why or how, and burped out the universe for no known reason.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Theodoric, posted 06-29-2013 12:36 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Theodoric, posted 04-03-2016 7:49 PM starlite has replied
 Message 201 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-04-2016 10:19 AM starlite has replied

  
starlite
Member (Idle past 2914 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 197 of 223 (781301)
04-03-2016 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Theodoric
04-03-2016 7:49 PM


Goose and gander
Well, rude one, if you claim it is 'laziness' to claim God exists because no scientific evidence exists then where is the evidence for where the singularity that the big bang started from? How about the first lifeform, show the evidence where it was and what it was?
At least for the bible and God we have a long history of proofs and evidences.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Theodoric, posted 04-03-2016 7:49 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Theodoric, posted 04-03-2016 11:16 PM starlite has replied
 Message 200 by Pressie, posted 04-04-2016 7:12 AM starlite has replied

  
starlite
Member (Idle past 2914 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 199 of 223 (781310)
04-03-2016 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Theodoric
04-03-2016 11:16 PM


Re: Goose and gander
I was addressing your comment. Try to comment on topic then.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Percy, posted 04-04-2016 11:17 AM starlite has replied

  
starlite
Member (Idle past 2914 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 203 of 223 (781371)
04-04-2016 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Theodoric
04-03-2016 11:16 PM


Re: Goose and gander
No need, the evidences for the spiritual and God are known. The issue is whether we deny and reject and ignore or not.

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starlite
Member (Idle past 2914 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 204 of 223 (781372)
04-04-2016 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by Percy
04-04-2016 11:17 AM


Re: Goose and gander
ok

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starlite
Member (Idle past 2914 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 205 of 223 (781373)
04-04-2016 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Pressie
04-04-2016 7:12 AM


Re: Goose and gander
Nice story. I liked the imaginary years bit especially. Now, when you show some of those little critters producing man, heck, even a bug or something...get back to us.

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starlite
Member (Idle past 2914 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 206 of 223 (781374)
04-04-2016 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by New Cat's Eye
04-04-2016 10:19 AM


If the little hot soup did nothing, then in your mind no expansion would have happened, that is supposed to be something. Or do you admit it is really nothing!?
Why consider math that has no application or bearing on reality? If there was a teeny weeny hot soup, and soon after, the universe appeared, that seems to have to mean something happened. Not sure how mentioning y or x or some imaginary plot or line changes that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-04-2016 10:19 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-04-2016 1:45 PM starlite has replied
 Message 208 by Blue Jay, posted 04-04-2016 2:06 PM starlite has replied

  
starlite
Member (Idle past 2914 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 209 of 223 (781418)
04-04-2016 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Blue Jay
04-04-2016 2:06 PM


If if if. Bottom line is that your line and math is imaginary and a what if. No reality to it. Now if a hot little soup that was too small at one point to see with the naked eye popped out the universe, that is doing something!

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 Message 208 by Blue Jay, posted 04-04-2016 2:06 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
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starlite
Member (Idle past 2914 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


(1)
Message 210 of 223 (781424)
04-04-2016 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by New Cat's Eye
04-04-2016 1:45 PM


quote:
The singularity is not a thing. It is not a thing that can do something.
Let's not quibble over terms here. If all that is the universe came sailing out of that little sweet nothing I think we can refer to it as a thing. If we refer to the universe as a thing, why not!?
quote:
I think the expansion happened, it just didn't occur from the singularity.
More quibbling. If there was no singularity what would have expanded!!?
quote:
There has never been nothing.
Like you would know.
quote:
There are no points in time where no things exist.
You should get a fine each time you even use the word time. Define it?
quote:
The catch is that time extends into the past direction by a finite amount. (think about how you can only go north for a finite distance)
Obviously there was no time in the created universe before the universe existed!
quote:
Analogizing concepts can make it easier to understand them.
Easier to storytell.
quote:
There is not a point in time where the universe does not exist,
Says you who couldn't possibly know. Why even talk?
quote:
At what point does the plot of 1/X reach the Y-axis?
Hint: it never does. The y-axis is an asymptote.
Never never land then. OK. Fantasy. Speculation. Modeling based on earth time and space and etc.
quote:
Similarly, the Universe never reaches the singularity.
I'll say!!
quote:
The singularity is not a point in time where the Universe exists.
Well put!
quote:
It is not a thing, nor a state of the Universe, from where/when the Universe expanded.
So if there was no magic singularity, what could have expanded or done anything? Pretty fuzzy and funny stuff.
Edited by starlite, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-04-2016 1:45 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 2:56 PM starlite has replied
 Message 212 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-04-2016 4:27 PM starlite has replied

  
starlite
Member (Idle past 2914 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 213 of 223 (781476)
04-04-2016 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by Phat
04-04-2016 2:56 PM


Re: Expanding Universes have to start somewhere
Except science about the origins of life or the universe IS belief and nothing at all else.
tks

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 2:56 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 5:52 PM starlite has replied

  
starlite
Member (Idle past 2914 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 214 of 223 (781478)
04-04-2016 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by New Cat's Eye
04-04-2016 4:27 PM


quote:


quote:
Whatever thing you are referring to, it cannot be the singularity.
OK looks like we need to do baby steps with you then. If there was no singularity little soup thingie (sorry if I get technical) then do you claim the universe would still have expanded? One assumes that what expanded was that little hot soup, no? Otherwise what was it exactly?
quote:
The Universe, which the singularity is not.
The universe then had to be real small to expand. So what does a singularity have to do with it if it was not from the hot soup singularity it expanded? You think the hot soup was just an observer on the sidelines?
quote:
Huh? I'm talking about what the Big Bang theory says, this is not a statement of knowledge that I have.
Well you admit the theory is not based on knowledge? Good start.
quote:
Nobody knows anything, hurray, there's no reason for us to converse.
Science should be about knowing something though. Get back to us when you do I guess.
quote:
Now, if you want to talk about what the Big Bang theory says (as per the forum that this thread is in), then I'm pretty sure we can talk about that.
So talk. We can keep in mind it is a fairy tale and you admit not knowing.
quote:
No problem. Science and scientists will continue forward figuring things out and solving problems while you sit back and wallow in your ignorance proclaiming that it is all a bunch of bullshit.
In your dreams perhaps. So far we see you post only the latter.
quote:
If you understand these things then why do you post to the contrary?
Because creation is where the universe came from so obviously there was no time here before that! You can say it was the hot soup that was here, but you admit not really knowing. Many call that religion.
quote:
The Universe, itself.
So the teensie hot soup was not a singularity? It was what, just the little non thing the whole universe came from? Or...the universe was here just real small!? Be clear with your stories man.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-04-2016 4:27 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-04-2016 9:16 PM starlite has replied

  
starlite
Member (Idle past 2914 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 216 of 223 (781505)
04-04-2016 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Phat
04-04-2016 5:52 PM


[/quote]
quote:
This is what you have been taught. You want to believe it, right?
No, I was taught science was something akin to knowledge. It took time to realize it is a joke when it comes to origins.
quote:
I am a believer. I can say to myself that I know that there is a God. If you read any of my posts in the belief forums, you will see my arguments. Were I teaching a class, however, it would not be wise to teach that God is knowable. It would be more honest to teach that God is believable and to explain my logic.
Since we are being honest, do you think Jesus created the world and heavens...or that He sort of sat in the sidelines while the big bang dunnit?
quote:
Why not briefly share your belief about Jesus and Creation? Even though this is a science forum, I will allow some leeway for the sake of getting to understand the basis of your reasoning.
I accept that Jesus created it all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 5:52 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 04-04-2016 8:56 PM starlite has replied

  
starlite
Member (Idle past 2914 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 218 of 223 (781509)
04-04-2016 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Phat
04-04-2016 8:56 PM


Re: How A Creator Creates
Genesis does not record any fuse lighting. As for what scientists may do or not, that is up to the individual. I merely point out they do not know at all, and that the tales about origin of life and the universe are pure religion, not any real science.

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starlite
Member (Idle past 2914 days)
Posts: 83
Joined: 04-03-2016


Message 220 of 223 (781524)
04-04-2016 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by New Cat's Eye
04-04-2016 9:16 PM


Ok so if you are right, we should not call the little hot soup that spawned the universe the singularity. That soup was the universe. Thanks for that. Nice to get the fable straight. I will have to get a second opinion of course, but we can go with that for now.
Edited by starlite, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-04-2016 9:16 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-05-2016 10:28 AM starlite has not replied

  
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