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Author Topic:   Hollow Earth Expedition?
JonF
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Message 20 of 177 (702323)
07-04-2013 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by yenmor
07-03-2013 9:30 PM


Re: Seismic waves
Jan lamprecht has an explanation for that.

No, he has no explanation. He has some pictures. Anybody can draw pictures.

I see that his pictures do not include reflected waves, do not include S-waves, do not include waves which change P->S and S->P, and do not include time of arrival. Show us some equations and parameters which produce the actual observed waves and timing of arrival and he may have something. Although I doubt it.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


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JonF
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Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
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(3)
Message 113 of 177 (736293)
09-06-2014 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Colbard
09-06-2014 8:33 AM


Re: Discussing hollow earth theory
Put it this way, if man discovers what is in the earth, then the Bible is wrong.
All you have to do to prove it wrong is dig!

Digging is not necessary. We take pictures of the interior of the Earth. It's called seismic tomography, and it works just like a CAT scan except it uses earthquake waves instead of X-rays.

from Motion history of tectonic plates unravelled :


"Seismic tomography image of the tectonic plate subduction under the Aegean region between Greece and Turkey. In good approximation a tomogram represents an indirect measure of the temperature of the mantle. The temperature of the cold (blue) plate differs by several hundreds of degrees with that of the more warm (red) regions. The prominent blue zone reflects the subducted “Tethys Ocean” Plate which is here still connected to the African continent. The deepest portions were still the surface some 180 million years ago. Source: M.Amaru & W. Spakman, Utrecht University"

The bottom of the image is about 210 km (130 miles) below the surface, and any empty space would be obvious.

From Depth Extent of the Lau Back-Arc Spreading Center and Its Relation to Subduction Processes (free registration required) one of my favorites::


"East-west vertical cross section of a P wave velocity image from 0- to 700-km depth along the line AB (1220-km length) in Fig. 3A. Red and blue colors denote slow and fast velocities, respectively. Solid triangles denote active volcanoes. CLSC denotes the location of the Central Lau Spreading Center and ELSC denotes the location of the Eastern Lau Spreading Center. Earthquakes within a 40-km width from the cross section are shown as white circles. The velocity perturbation scale is shown at the bottom."

Clearly shows a subducting slab. The bottom of this one is 700 km (435 miles down).

We also learn about the interior of the Earth from the ways earthquake waves are refracted and modified as they pass through the earth, especially the boundaries between zones. When earthquake waves pass through the Earth and encounter a boundary between different materials, some of the wave is reflected back and some is transmitted through (and in some circumstances the nature of one or both of the two waves is changed). By seeing where waves are or are not received, and by measuring their nature, and timing how long they take to arrive, we can map and have mapped all the interfaces in the Earth and the density of the parts of the Earth. From Earthquakes, Seismology and Plate Tectonics here's a picture of most of the ways waves travel from an earthquake at F:

If there ware a solid-gas or liquid-gas boundary inside the Earth, we would know it.

FYI that's how one provides references and discussion. Not "Goolge it".

By the way, if the information is only in the Bible, and there is no scientific evidence for it, does that make it wrong?

If that's all we know about something, it's not necessarily wrong but it's not scientific evidence. If we know much more than that we can make a determination. E.g we know that all evidence we would expect to see from a global fludde does not exist, and we have lots of evidence that no such fludde ever happened, so we conclude that in that case the Bible is wrong. It might be allegory or hyperbole or something, but it's not a factual account of an event that happened as described.

I'll be glad to provide references and discussion of that in an appropriate thread. but you better come prepared to discuss the science.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Colbard, posted 09-07-2014 1:09 AM JonF has responded

  
JonF
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Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 118 of 177 (736340)
09-07-2014 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Colbard
09-07-2014 1:09 AM


Re: Discussing hollow earth theory
You are very kind and informative.
Love the old English sounding "fludde" !

No reaction to the demolishment of your claims.


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JonF
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Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 119 of 177 (736341)
09-07-2014 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Colbard
09-07-2014 1:27 AM


Re: Discussing hollow earth theory and other nonsense
I expect that if I have discovered something, that it can be verified by scientific data, such as provided by the previous post, but I may not go along with the conclusions from that data. For eg, the layer under the crust can have the properties of magma, without it being magma.

It's a solid. Not a gaseous empty space. Oh, and it's not magma.

I politely pointed out why your opinion is wrong. Do you still hold that opinion, and why?

{eta} You must not have any experience with discussion boards. What you've seen is not a "kerfluffle" or any kind of angry response.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


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JonF
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Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
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Message 141 of 177 (741032)
11-09-2014 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by Colbard
11-08-2014 9:47 PM


Re: Not hollow, but...
The interior of the earth cannot be fathomed or discovered, but only theorized about.

Sheesh, we take pictures of the interior of the Earth all the time. Seismic tomography. Like a CAT scan except with earthquake waves instead of X-rays.

E.g. a subducting slab in the South Pacific from Depth Extent of the Lau Back-Arc Spreading Center and Its Relation to Subduction Processes (free registration required) (click to embiggenize):


"East-west vertical cross section of a P wave velocity image from 0- to 700-km depth along the line AB (1220-km length) in Fig. 3A. Red and blue colors denote slow and fast velocities, respectively. Solid triangles denote active volcanoes. CLSC denotes the location of the Central Lau Spreading Center and ELSC denotes the location of the Eastern Lau Spreading Center. Earthquakes within a 40-km width from the cross section are shown as white circles. The velocity perturbation scale is shown at the bottom."

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JonF
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Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 142 of 177 (741033)
11-09-2014 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 136 by Colbard
11-08-2014 10:41 PM


Re: Not hollow, but...
unless we attribute the evidence for a softer state inside the earth to molten rock

Plastic rock, not molten rock.


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JonF
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Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 143 of 177 (741034)
11-09-2014 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Colbard
11-09-2014 6:56 AM


Re: Cat in the sock draw
the rock is plastic, rather than solid, a condition which comes about by molten rock

Or, as it really is in this case, high temperature and pressure. The rock is solid but deforms plastically under those conditions.


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JonF
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Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 144 of 177 (741042)
11-09-2014 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 139 by Colbard
11-09-2014 6:56 AM


Re: Cat in the sock draw
If the earth's crust was sitting on top of semi molten or plastic rock, then the sound and shock waves would not propagate like they do in a hollow object, like a bell. The plastic rock would quell the waves. And yet this bell effect takes place, as well as the other effects we associate with plastic rock.

Gibberish and BS.

Primary (P) waves are compressional waves, secondary (S) waves are shear waves. Like all mechanical waves they propagate differently through different media to different extents as long as it's not vacuum. Liquid, solid but plastic rock, air, whatever; except S waves don't propagate through liquid. (That's one way we know that the mantle and inner core are not a liquid or a gas, and the outer core is a liquid).

When any kind of wave encounters a boundary between areas with different propagation characteristics (impedance) part of the wave reflects, part of the wave is transmitted across the interface. This allows us to detect interfaces. For S and P waves sometimes the nature of the transmitted or reflected wave changes. Also, when density changes (as it does with depth) the wave path may be curved by refraction.

Here's a couple of images showing this visually:


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JonF
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Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 147 of 177 (741262)
11-10-2014 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Colbard
11-10-2014 6:51 PM


Re: Cat in the sock drawer
O-O-O-KAY, we're doing the full-bore gibberish. (Backing away slowly).

This message is a reply to:
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JonF
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Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 162 of 177 (741556)
11-13-2014 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by Colbard
11-13-2014 7:00 AM


We know exactly what you are saying.

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