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Author Topic:   Hollow Earth Expedition?
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 177 (702357)
07-04-2013 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by yenmor
07-04-2013 8:15 PM


Re: Hollow Man
...and making snark backhanded comments are all YEC traits.
Are we supposed to be taking this stuff seriously? Are you actually suggesting that there really might be an entry point to the inside of the Earth located at the north pole? That the center of gravity of the earth might not be about 6400 km straight down from here?
Or more fundamentally, do you believe you've presented something that anyone ought to spend real effort refuting? Because the proposals in this thread haven't even reached 'Chariot of the Gods' level of seriousness.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I would say here something that was heard from an ecclesiastic of the most eminent degree; ‘That the intention of the Holy Ghost is to teach us how one goes to heaven, not how the heaven goes.’ Galileo Galilei 1615.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by yenmor, posted 07-04-2013 8:15 PM yenmor has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 32 of 177 (702372)
07-05-2013 5:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by yenmor
07-02-2013 7:56 PM


Re: Take 2
He also claims that the center of gravity of the Earth isn't in the center of the Earth but rather in the crustal mass.
If that was true than the force of gravity one experienced would vary noticeably depending on where on the surface of the Earth one was, which it doesn't.
So, if the Earth is hollow, what's keeping the crust from collapsing into the void?
Another question would be, what is the crust made of? Taking a generous figure of 50km for the thickness of the Earth's crust, then if that's all there is to the Earth, the crust must have a density 236 time greater than water, and is therefore made of no known substance, and in particular not of the substances which we know the crust is made of.
Expanding earth theorists have shown that all the continents fit together on all sides.
Well, they've shown you videos of it. That's not quite the same thing. I can show you videos of dragons ...
There were people that posed similar types of questions: If the Earth is moving, how come the winds aren't blowing everyone and everything off the surface?
Well, this was a good question. And if the answer had been: "We did the math, and, dammit, you're right, if the Earth was rotating we'd all be flung off into space" then we'd all be geocentrists. Heliocentrism didn't triumph because no-one asked such questions, or because heliocentrists ignored them, but because heliocentrists answered them. Meanwhile, people have also addressed good questions to people who weren't able to answer them, and who turned out to be complete idiots. This is how we sort the men from the boys.
Here's my take. As a layman science dude (I would hardly call an engineer a scientist or anything close to it), I know next to nothing about geology.
My textbook, try reading chapter 3.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 33 of 177 (702377)
07-05-2013 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by yenmor
07-04-2013 7:23 PM


Re: Hollow Man
This idea actually gave me an idea for a science fiction novel. I spent about an hour last night googling around to see if anyone has ever done an idea like this.
A hollow earth you can reach by a tunnel?
From blockbuster:
Journey to the Centre of the Earth
To Disney:
Atlantis: The Lost Empire
Unless... your idea is something we haven't been talking about here?
I can't think of a movie that involves a hollow earth with simply nothing there... could possibly make for an interesting disaster movie?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(2)
Message 34 of 177 (702380)
07-05-2013 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by yenmor
07-04-2013 8:15 PM


Re: Hollow Rebuttal
Here's the thing. Have you ever tried to flatten out an orange peal in one piece? For instance, Greenland in that map of yours is much bigger than it actually is.
Agreed.
But I told you I don't have an issue with saying that North and South America mostly line up with Europe and Africa. (This area of context would include Greenland).
The problem is with the other coastlines for the Pacific ocean, not the Atlantic.
I can look at a globe too (it's just more difficult to post a 3D picture of a globe) and see that North and South America do not line up with Asia and Australia. They both angle inwards (towards Africa) at their southern ends. They couldn't possibly line up without pulling Europe away from North America. Are you trying to say they actually go together? Are you trying to say your video shows that it does? Maybe I'll try to take a look at the warp-job they're pulling over your eyes this weekend.
throwing out random refutes...
...just two, really. (Centre of gravity and coasts not lining up) Neither of which you have a rebuttal for...
not looking at my links and info...
...that I countered with actual pictures and explanations everyone can see...
and making snark backhanded comments...
...those are just plain funny.
are all YEC traits
YECs wish they were as entertaining as me. It would at least give a reason for someone to pay attention to them.

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yenmor
Member (Idle past 3655 days)
Posts: 145
Joined: 07-01-2013


Message 35 of 177 (702382)
07-05-2013 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by NoNukes
07-04-2013 9:21 PM


Re: Hollow Man
LoL and quote mining is also a yec trait. Funny how my topic brought out the yec attitude in everyone.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 36 of 177 (702385)
07-05-2013 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by yenmor
07-05-2013 9:35 AM


Re: Hollow Man
How else would you expect us to react to something so utterly stupid? The whole concept is stupid and Brooks Agnew is a known liar and charlatan. There is nothing scientific in what he is trying to present. That you want to give him any attention makes me suspicious of your motives.
A random guy that posts no information about himself, just happens to post an OP about Brooks Agnew and Neal Adams. Curiouser and curiouser.
You do realize Neal Adams is a comic book artist don't you?
Edited by Theodoric, : punctuation

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 37 of 177 (702387)
07-05-2013 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by yenmor
07-05-2013 9:35 AM


Re: Hollow Man
yenmor writes:
Funny how my topic brought out the yec attitude in everyone.
No, just you.
The Earth has just about as much chance of being hollow as it does flat and orbited by the sun. You've been provided evidence and explanations for why the Earth is not and could not be hollow. You're ignoring it and instead focusing on posts from people who thought you were asking a stupid question.
You said up front that you didn't have a horse in this race and preferred to "hold off my judgment." You have more than enough information to judge now, why don't you focus on that and let us know what you think?
--Percy

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 38 of 177 (702389)
07-05-2013 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Stile
07-05-2013 9:03 AM


Re: Hollow Man
I can't think of a movie that involves a hollow earth with simply nothing there... could possibly make for an interesting disaster movie?
A Dyson sphere?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Stile, posted 07-05-2013 12:28 PM Coyote has not replied
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 39 of 177 (702391)
07-05-2013 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by yenmor
07-04-2013 8:15 PM


Re: Hollow Man
yenmor writes:
Here's the thing. Have you ever tried to flatten out an orange peal in one piece?
Yes, I have. Since I was a kid, it's been a point of honour among my cousins to do it. You're in for a lot of ribbing if you can't.
yenmor writes:
For instance, Greenland in that map of yours is much bigger than it actually is.
There are lots of other projections besides Mercator that are accurate. All you'd have to do to really test the idea is to get an accurate map, say a sinusoidal projection with interuptions (much like an orange peel), cut out the continents and scotch-tape them together by the edges.
I've looked at your video and it's far from convincing. When two coastlines come close together, they are rotated out of view before you can see how well they fit. When they come around again, they fit miraculously but you can't tell if there's any overlap.
(The Mediterranean Sea is one obvious example that isn't explained by simple expansion.)

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Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 40 of 177 (702393)
07-05-2013 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Coyote
07-05-2013 12:04 PM


Re: Hollow Man
Coyote writes:
A Dyson sphere?
Actually, I was simply thinking of a hollow earth where major earthquakes happened and continents were just falling "into the earth" and breaking apart or something. Planet buster.
But a Dyson sphere would be even cooler.
Now it's a Sci-Fi movie where our earth used to be a sun of a technologically advanced population... The crust is simply dust that accumulated on a long-lost (and un-used) Dyson sphere.
And then they want to re-ignite the whole process in order to control the (practically) infinite energy available.
The only one who can stop their evil monopoly and manipulation is... Adam West! '60s Batman to the rescue!
"Two hands on the bat-rope, Robin. We're about to enter the centre of the Earth!"

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Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 41 of 177 (702395)
07-05-2013 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by yenmor
07-05-2013 9:35 AM


Re: Hollow Man
yenmor writes:
yec
You keep using that word... I do not think-ita-means what you think-ita-means.
(Said with a wicked mustache)
Seriously, though. I'm just having some fun. I'm not trying to insult you or anything. Did you have something you wanted to discuss in-depth and actually have a back-and-forth about?
I'm sensing a lot of back-ing here, but not so much forth-ing...

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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yenmor
Member (Idle past 3655 days)
Posts: 145
Joined: 07-01-2013


Message 42 of 177 (702409)
07-05-2013 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Coyote
07-05-2013 12:04 PM


Re: Hollow Man
That involves building a super structure around a star. I don't think that even comes close to some mysterious process that expands a planet and hollows out the core.

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yenmor
Member (Idle past 3655 days)
Posts: 145
Joined: 07-01-2013


Message 43 of 177 (702410)
07-05-2013 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Stile
07-05-2013 12:33 PM


Re: Hollow Man
quote:
You keep using that word... I do not think-ita-means what you think-ita-means.
(Said with a wicked mustache)
Seriously, though. I'm just having some fun. I'm not trying to insult you or anything. Did you have something you wanted to discuss in-depth and actually have a back-and-forth about?
I'm sensing a lot of back-ing here, but not so much forth-ing...
Well, sort of.
Let me make a little forth-ing to clear up some misunderstanding.
I'm an atheist. I'm neither an evolutionist nor a creationist. It's not that I care. It's that I firmly believe to not have an opinion on something that I don't have a good grasp of. There are a lot of engineers here, so I'm sure people know what I mean about "normal" people nosing around where they're not qualified to do. It's annoying when other people do it to me. Why would I do it to other people?
Regarding this topic, I just found it and thought it was an interesting/cool idea. I think the misunderstanding stems from people's polarizing opinion on things. To most people here, interesting equates to supportive. That's where the snark and dismissive comments came from I suspect very much.
I have a very interesting idea for a science fiction novel that I plan to work on. And I was hoping to get some more info on the subject or perhaps some insight. The supposed phd guy I linked to talks about "negative vibrations from the inner mind" and all that crap.
I did more googling and found a few opinion pieces on it. But not much.
So, I guess I was hoping people here would find it at least a little bit interesting and perhaps even give a couple proposals on how this could be possible.
Instead, the very annoying YEC traits that I've been seeing over the years of reading on various evo vs creo forums are displayed by responders here. I say that with the greatest sincerity, and I can understand how people become defensive about it. But it's true.
Anyway, since this topic isn't really drawing anything but snark comments and displays of YEC qualities, I'm not really interested in it anymore.
I have some friends from college that have become college professors. I'll ask for their opinions. No, not the opinion of there's any validity to the hollow earth stuff. But opinion on how I can make a scifi novel on the topic sound less like it was written by a crank (me).

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 44 of 177 (702411)
07-05-2013 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Coyote
07-05-2013 12:04 PM


Re: Hollow Man
A Dyson sphere?
Next to Google, Wikipedia is your best friend: Dyson Sphere
It's a science fiction term based on a thought experiment performed by Freeman Dyson.
If we try to use solar power, the problem is that the earth's surface only receives a very small fraction of the sun's entire output. We can increase that by creating a swarm of solar-power satellites that encircle the sun. First the swarm started out as a ring around the sun along the earth's orbit, rather like the ring-like swarm of communications satellites encircling the earth's equator in geo-synchronous orbit.
The article proceeds with the expansion of this ring-like swarm to where the swarm forms a bubble around the star and then finally with the connecting of the swarm into a shell that encircles the sun, thus receiving all of its radiant energy. This shell would then become a Dyson sphere, the final stages of which would be to convert its inner surface into living areas.
This idea (and the name -- Freeman Dyson doesn't like that it's named after him) has been developed and used extensively in science fiction, the most popular example being in the Star Trek:TNG episode, Relics, which marked the return of Scotty. Another most famous example is Larry Niven's Ringworld novels in which a ring had been built around a star.
------------------------------
"Those who fail to learn the lessons of science fiction are doomed to live them."

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 45 of 177 (702412)
07-05-2013 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by yenmor
07-05-2013 4:20 PM


Re: Hollow Man
I'm an atheist. I'm neither an evolutionist nor a creationist.
A large part of the problem is that most of us here have a rather heightened sense of smell which has been developed by years, even decades, of experience. It is a very sad fact that we've encountered many creationists who present themselves as non-creationists and many fundamentalists who present themselves as not being Christians, but it doesn't take long for them to let their sheep's clothing drop and be revealed for what they really are.
It's just that by your posts we were picking up that same scent off of you. Do stick around though.
I have a very interesting idea for a science fiction novel that I plan to work on.
Then check out some of the other novels based on a hollow earth. I was introduced to the idea a half century ago by Edgar Rice Burroughs' 1914 At the Earth's Core, which included a polar opening that could be reached by airship (dirigible), though the first novel involved a drilling vehicle that, once it started downward, the protagonists discovered to their dismay could not be steered. The world down there is called Pellucidar and even Tarzan visited there once (yes, that Edgar Rice Burroughs).
Edited by dwise1, : Tarzan

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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