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Author Topic:   Question for creationists: Why would you rather believe in a small God?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 38 of 301 (702982)
07-13-2013 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Faith
07-13-2013 10:07 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

Also I don't think "secular scientists are wrong..." about anything other than evolution and the Old Earth.

Yes, but sadly in order to deny those two things you have to deny virtually all of the natural sciences, from genetics and cell biology, through palaeontology, anthropology, biology and zoology generally (including taxonomy and cladistics), great lumps of medicine and pharmacology. Then we have all of geology, radioactive decay, all astronomy and great chunks of physics.

I once started to compile a list of what you have to deny in order to stick with your primitive belief but I lost interest - maybe we should have another go.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 10:07 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 11:45 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 43 of 301 (702988)
07-13-2013 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Faith
07-13-2013 11:45 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:


Yes you did compile a list of sciences I'd supposedly have to reject if I reject evolution and an Old Earth but you are wrong, I reject none of them and none of them needs to be rejected because they fit in quite well with Creationist assumptions.

No Faith, they don't; they really don't. The entire body of science is against you - all of it. You obviously can't agree with it but for God's sake don't try to fool yourself into thinking that your beliefs fit with scientific knowledge - that's just barking mad wrong.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 11:45 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 12:00 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 46 of 301 (702993)
07-13-2013 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Faith
07-13-2013 12:00 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:


Sorry, Tangle, it is you who are wrong. The vast majority of scientific knowledge is perfectly in tune with Creationist principles, and no Christian denies any of it.

Well luckily this is a really easy one to prove, show me a standard undergraduate science text book that teaches creationism in biology and a standard text that teaches. 10,000 year old earth in geology.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 12:00 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 12:14 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 51 of 301 (703000)
07-13-2013 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Faith
07-13-2013 12:14 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

Wherever there are Old Earth assumptions we disagree, but the bulk of science has nothing to do with such assumptions. Genetics doesn't need them, most Geology doesn't need them, medicine doesn't need them, very little needs them and the stuff that uses them is all theoretical and impractical, essentially useless, they are tacked on and have nothing to do with the facts of the sciences.

So you can't show me any scientific text books that teach a young earth or creation. So you will you will now accept that your opinions do not agree with science.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 12:14 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 12:24 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 55 of 301 (703006)
07-13-2013 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Faith
07-13-2013 12:23 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

Yes, I do believe they don't need it.

You are saying that scientists do not need the science that they know? Even for you, that's an odd thing to say.

90% or more of your course in Geology is quite acceptable to a Creationist because all that knowledge has nothing to do with an Old Earth.

The entirety of geology depends on the concept of an old earth - without that, none of it makes any sense at all, the study of geology would be no more than stamp collecting with no concern of where the stamps came from, it would just be a collection of rocks with no explanatory power.

Believe what you like, but don't believe that your beliefs are congruent with science or that it doesn't matter; it does.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 12:23 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 07-13-2013 10:59 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 69 of 301 (703047)
07-14-2013 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Faith
07-14-2013 4:05 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

Anybody's being wrong about anything doesn't change the fact that 90% of all the scientific work done is quite acceptable to YECs.

You mean 100%. You accept what scientific knowledge brings you, you simply say that it's wrong. Weird stuff denial.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Faith, posted 07-14-2013 4:05 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 07-14-2013 12:55 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 80 of 301 (703074)
07-15-2013 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Faith
07-14-2013 6:33 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

Too much to ask. My general statement is good enough. Wherever facts are presented without the usual ridiculous ancient age suppositions attached to them, a YEC has no problem with them.

You're happy to live with the the world as you see it, you just don't like to hear how it got that way because every branch of science tells you that your book is wrong about it.

Your 90% is therefore nonsense; when a scientist describes the molecular structure of a chimp's DNA or a rock's chemical composition you have no concerns, but as soon as we form any useful conclusions and comparisons between other animals and rock formations that would harm your own pet theory, you disagree. And you disagree 100% of the time.

That's daft enough, but you go one step further and make the ludicrous claim that your non-scientific beliefs are compatible with science. That's just crazy.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Faith, posted 07-14-2013 6:33 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by jar, posted 07-15-2013 8:26 AM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 07-15-2013 9:40 AM Tangle has responded
 Message 91 by foreveryoung, posted 07-15-2013 2:51 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 90 of 301 (703089)
07-15-2013 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Faith
07-15-2013 9:40 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

Funny, it's simply fact. YECs have no problem with real science, true science, useful science, although you dislike the fact intensely

Umm, why would I 'dislike intensely' YECs liking true and useful science? My dislike is reserved for them denying science and then making up lies about it.

Ask yourself why you don't care about Hooks Law, disease theory, valency or electrical resistance. You reserve your science denying only to those areas of science that directly contradict your iron age book. Scientists are apparently only right when you and yours are not looking. Makes you wonder how we build stuff that works.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 07-15-2013 9:40 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Faith, posted 07-15-2013 4:33 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 140 of 301 (703156)
07-16-2013 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Faith
07-16-2013 12:50 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

I have an argument with CRI if they are claiming anything other than that.

You disagree with all mainstream science. You disagree with all non-Christians. You even disagree with almost all Christians.

You disagree with old earth creationists Christians and now you disagree with young earth creationists too.

Very soon Faith, you'll only have yourself to disagree with. But of course we've found that you disagree with yourself all the time because you constantly have to make up new excuses for being in the wrong.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 12:50 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 146 of 301 (703162)
07-16-2013 5:31 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by vimesey
07-16-2013 5:04 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
vimesey writes:

To be fair, though, we are lacking a magic book, written a few thousand years ago, by bronze age priests with no scientific awareness.

I'm sure we could rustle up one of those with almost no effort - compared with the effort required for scientific enquiry, it would be trivial. For god's sake, if the mormons can do it......

Cracked it.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by vimesey, posted 07-16-2013 5:04 AM vimesey has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 167 of 301 (703203)
07-16-2013 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
07-16-2013 1:47 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

I don't "assume" it, I conclude it to be so because any other explanation makes no sense.

1. Even if no other explanations make sense to you, you still need evidence to support the one you believe.

2. Go out into your garden and get a couple of handfuls of earth; if you can get some sand and grit too so much the better. Tip it into an large glass jug, shake it up well, then let it stand for an hour.

You have just simulated a flood followed by settlement.

You'll notice that sediment is in layers with the largest particles at the bottom and the finest at the top.

That is simple physics and is replicated in nature when floods occur. It is absolutely NOT what geological formations show. We see many layers of all sorts of sizes all out of order.

Think about that for a while.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 1:47 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 2:03 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 173 of 301 (703210)
07-16-2013 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Faith
07-16-2013 2:03 PM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:


Oh right, compare a worldwide flood with what happens in a jug in your backyard. What YOU need to think about is what OCEANS do, which I just described up a few posts. Jug indeed!

We KNOW what oceans and rivers and floods do because we can see them and measure them in action. They obey the laws of physics which means that when a flood subsides heavy particles fall to the bottom first and lighter take longer. Heavy particles never fall last - or do you have evidence that shows the opposite?


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Faith, posted 07-16-2013 2:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 212 of 301 (703253)
07-17-2013 4:51 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
07-17-2013 4:15 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

The cause of the cheetah's inability to breed with other members of the cat family is their genetic depletion. This is one case that supports my claim.

The lack of genetic variation in species would be extremely strong evidence - probably undeniable evidence - for the Noah story where a global flood 4,000 years ago caused the deaths of all but a breeding pairs of all animals and plants.

Every living animal and plant would show the cheetah's genetic bottleneck marker. Unfortunately for you, we find no such evidence, in fact the opposite, no bottleneck exists, therefore there was no global flood. It's as simple as that.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 07-17-2013 4:15 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Faith, posted 07-17-2013 6:08 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 214 of 301 (703255)
07-17-2013 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Faith
07-17-2013 6:08 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

I've answered this many times already.

You appear to be confusing the word 'answer' with a pile of made up shite.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Faith, posted 07-17-2013 6:08 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Faith, posted 07-17-2013 11:50 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7000
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 223 of 301 (703275)
07-17-2013 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Faith
07-17-2013 11:50 AM


Re: Science meets Faith
Faith writes:

It answers your objection perfectly: you say the bottleneck of the Flood would have produced the same results as a bottleneck today and I explained why it wouldn't.

You simply asserted with no evidence whatsoever, that pre-flood the animals would have been 'enormously greater than it is now'. That's pure nonsense.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Faith, posted 07-17-2013 11:50 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
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