Why did the Christian messiah fail to fulfill the messianic prophecies?

While I think you make a good argument, I find the argument somewhat irrelevant at least for me. As a non Jew born thousands of years after the events in the Old Testament, I am struggling just a bit to understand why I should care that Jesus was or was not the military leader that some Jews were anticipating. I can accept the usefulness of having the Jews of the day accept that concept. I can even accept that the Luke or whoever was the author of Luke and Acts firmly believed that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah, but isn't that issue pretty much irrelevant for me? I think so.After all, the essence of Christianity is, or at least ought to be Christ's teachings, example, and promises. Jesus was so different from what the Jews were expecting that for them, perhaps every possible tie of Jesus to OT scriptures was important. For me, not so much.Of course carrying around all of the baggage does provide "fundies" with yet another hammer to whack Jews with, in their efforts to, as Ann Coulter has said, "Perfect them". And apparently fundies like to do exactly that.In any event, isn't "failed prophecy" something of an oxymoron? If something did not happen, how could it have been foretold?

Wow. That's quite convoluted. I can honestly say that I've never held such a thought. But I guess that it wouldn't be the first thing fundies were ever wrong about. I take more pleasure in noting that Jesus is pretty far left of the average stone-casting fundy.

I don't see that you've proven or even attempted to demonstrate anything like that. It has been argued that that there are "prophecies" that Jesus did not fulfill. It has been further argued that calling those things prophecies may well be unjustified in the first place. While those arguments might well be enough to explain why Jesus was not what the Jews were expecting, those arguments do not show that Jesus was not divine.Ask yourself this. If Jesus was the Jewish messiah, would he then be acceptable for worship? If the answer is no, and I believe the answer is no, then you are making a bad argument.

Yes, Christ was resurrected and holds the keys. But did Jesus actually say this stuff to John? Because that, and not the resurrection itself, is the event described in Revelations.

Some will and some won't. They are not prophecies about Jesus and so far they are not prophecies about anyone else either. So you assert. But you haven't produced a shred of evidence or even argument about that. You haven't even produce an argument that not being the messiah as you define it is even relevant.

You miss the point. I suspect that you are simply dismissing the point in pursuit of some agenda that really isn't relevant to the OP.Jesus did not do what was described above. But I ask, so what? Isn't it only a person who is counting on those words to be literal and fulfilled who ought to be the slightest bit bothered?That prophecy is irrelevant to the question of whether Jesus is Lord. I don't see any reason to make an attempt to shoehorn Jesus ministry into also being the slaughterer of Jewish enemies.If this "prophecy" turns out to be utterly wrong, and the messiah never comes, then it is not prophecy at all, is it? A rationalization that I find totally unnecessary. Jesus failure to be a military leader 2000 years ago is no failure at all in my eyes. It is akin to me noting that Usain Bolt wasn't a great miler. Is that some kind of failure? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

I believe I've acknowledged that part of Eliahyu's position, while dismissing it as a major concern for me. Eliahyu thinks my dismissal is nonsense, but makes no substantial argument for it other than to quote even more unfulfilled scripture. Christianity was founded among Jews, but has grown considerably beyond that. Christianity, at least for gentiles, does not absolutely require all Christ to be a military leader. And even if Jesus is not the Jewish military leader, the story according to the Gospels is that he was acknowledged directly by God as his Son, performed miracles etc. Show me support for the proposition that Jesus tried to establish an earthly kingdom in his time, and I'll agree that you have made a substantial argument.

I think I have acknowledged that too. It seems to be only Eliahyu who thinks his logic ought to be decisive to both of us. I am not trying to convince Eliahyu to adopt my position. I am only trying to point out the holes in his argument. Apparently a lot of people at the time did think that Jesus was going to free the Jews from the Romans. But the Gospels pretty much describe the Jews being the ones who were angry about Jesus with the Romans being largely indifferent. I don't find those arguments very compelling. Perhaps it is start. It is at least an argument. Right, which why I am surprised that you would attempt this line of argument.More difficult to answer are questions about why Jesus did not fulfill his own prophecies, but questions about why he did not fulfill some ancient Jewish scripture that may be wishful thinking on the part of an an oppressed people are quite easy for me to dismiss.

A problem with what some Christians insist on, yes. But Jesus can be the Son of God without doing a single thing the Jews were, and perhaps still are expecting their messiah to do. And aren't some of those predictions about what the messiah is supposed to accomplished already out of reach anyway? Why isn't that a problem.

Why would I accept that assumption in an argument that is essentially about whether Judaism is correct?

What? I though you were the messiah???

Perhaps it is off topic. But it is totally responsive to the discussion to the points being raised here.

We are having a debate which means that I might choose to explore areas on which we disagree. At some point, we will of course have to stop arguing and drop things. You think I am beyond that point, but that's just your opinion.I believe a perfectly good response to the question of why the Christian messiah failed to fulfill the messianic prophecies is that Jesus is not the Jewish messiah.I made that argument and the OP responds to the effect that Jesus not being the messiah means that he is not worthy of worship. Now maybe a response to that statement is off topic, but it is certainly no more off topic than is the OP's comment. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

I disagree, but isn't it your position that pursuing this point is off topic?Most Christians handle this issue by insisting that Christ will handle the unfulfilled portions in a 'Second Coming'. I personally don't see the point in assuming any such thing. I simply do not care that Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah. Well, you are simply wrong about that. He stated in Message 66 that worship of Jesus was idolatry, which led to my pointing out that his arguments up to that point, even if taken as correct, did not require such a conclusion. At some point during that line of discussion, you intervened to tell me Eliyahu was simply assuming that Judaism was correct. Thanks, but I already knew that.

Except that the text talks about collecting the fish from folks before feeding the multitude. Apparently somebody was eating fish. Jesus performed a miracle in which cast nets came up brimming full of fish. (Luke 5:7, John 21:6) Some of the disciples were fishermen by trade. I don't think the fake fish guess holds up all that well.