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Author Topic:   If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature....
Phat
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Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 72 of 708 (711271)
11-16-2013 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by ringo
11-15-2013 10:42 AM


Re: Evidence is Evident
ok here is my questions:
  • Do ideas exist without humans to think them up?
    For instance, does science exist without humans to complete the tests and verification?
  • If all humans agreed on reality, would reality conform to humanity or would reality exist...regardless...outside of consensus?
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 68 by ringo, posted 11-15-2013 10:42 AM ringo has replied

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     Message 75 by Tangle, posted 11-17-2013 11:11 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 82 of 708 (711380)
    11-18-2013 6:26 AM
    Reply to: Message 77 by ringo
    11-17-2013 2:00 PM


    Re: No absolute truth !?!?!?!?!
    Ringo writes:
    Absolute truth is a philosophical construct. If it does exist, we can never know what it is. The closest we can come is the best estimate.
    It could be theoretically possible to know someone who knows what absolute truth is. Thats closer than an estimate, no?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 77 by ringo, posted 11-17-2013 2:00 PM ringo has replied

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 124 of 708 (722356)
    03-20-2014 2:26 PM
    Reply to: Message 123 by ringo
    03-17-2014 11:54 AM


    Re: Are you absolutely sure there is no absolute truth?!?!? ;-}
    ringo writes:
    IF absolute truth was in effect, it wouldn't make any difference whether we acknowledged it or not. However, you have not established yet that there is such a thing as "absolute truth" beyond trivial definitions such as "black is black and white is white". it may be "absolutely" true that black can not be white but is that a useful truth?
    Perhaps your question could be rephrased as saying that if a Deity existed (my default, not yours) would such a Deity be useful in regards to human development. Some think that humans are best left alone in order to fulfill their destiny and maximize their potential. In other words, what is useful truth?
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 123 by ringo, posted 03-17-2014 11:54 AM ringo has replied

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    (2)
    Message 152 of 708 (723655)
    04-05-2014 11:32 AM
    Reply to: Message 131 by JRTjr01
    03-24-2014 1:40 AM


    If God exists...
    However, you have to watch out for those contradictions. This is what I’m trying to get through to Ringo.
    Lets cut to the chase. This whole argument is based on the idea that absolute truth exists (God exists) and exists regardless of what humans believe or don't believe. The correct way to approach such an argument is to say IF Absolute truth (or God exists) rather than starting from the assumption that He does. Just sayin...

    When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 131 by JRTjr01, posted 03-24-2014 1:40 AM JRTjr01 has replied

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 385 of 708 (732015)
    07-02-2014 7:33 PM
    Reply to: Message 382 by ringo
    06-28-2014 11:43 AM


    Absolut Vodka and the ability to define reality
    ringo writes:
    Nor does anything support the notion that there "is" a reality. It's all philosophy.
    As I read this sentence that you wrote, I find myself unable to imagine myself saying it with a straight face. I mean, how can reality be such a hard concept to understand....more so define. all that "philosophy" means is the love of knowledge.
    reality is what is. What appears to be---though undefined---still is by definition.

    When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 382 by ringo, posted 06-28-2014 11:43 AM ringo has replied

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 548 of 708 (747189)
    01-13-2015 8:30 AM
    Reply to: Message 544 by 1.61803
    10-06-2014 10:12 AM


    Atom Ant
    1.61803 writes:
    Yes I have come to that conclusion and have abandon this line of reason. I will continue to look for another approach in search of a absolute truth.
    All my arguments have been broken down and scattered like so many atoms.
    Heb 11:1-3 NIV writes:
    Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
    3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
    Atoms are not visible(to the naked eye) and yet what is seen is made from them. Food for thought.

    Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
    It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
    If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 544 by 1.61803, posted 10-06-2014 10:12 AM 1.61803 has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 566 of 708 (758089)
    05-19-2015 12:03 PM
    Reply to: Message 564 by ringo
    05-19-2015 11:58 AM


    Re: I thought I covered that?????
    What is the importance of absolute truth if it is only trivial?
    Personally, I believe in certain absolutes---absolutes such as love, humanity, character. I would argue that you are an absolute...you are certainly more than simply a relative!
    Their thoughts are (more or less) independent of each other - but their thoughts are not necessarily connected to any "reality".
    Being connected implies a sort of communion. Would you be prepared to argue that humanity lacks communion?
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
    It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
    If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 564 by ringo, posted 05-19-2015 11:58 AM ringo has replied

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    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 617 of 708 (768182)
    09-09-2015 1:43 AM
    Reply to: Message 600 by ringo
    06-10-2015 4:02 PM


    Knowing For sure For sure
    Cat's Eye writes:
    Brad Pitt is a living person. Santa Claus is a hodgepodge of characters from multiple cultural myths.
    ringo writes:
    How do you know?
    i suppose that technically brad Pitt could be a virtual reality creation from the labs of Hollywood...and Santa may well be an actual old guy somewhere...though i doubt the elves.

    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 600 by ringo, posted 06-10-2015 4:02 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
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