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Author | Topic: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature.... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Everything should be doubted. Is this solipsism? Are you saying that we can not know for certain that today is the day after yesterday or other simple facts that are absolutely true? Is it not absolutely true that I have written these words? Are you not absolutely certain that you are alive?
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
You couldn't have picked a worse example. I often don't know what day it is. I chose it because it doesn't matter which day it is specifically. Isn't today always the day after yesterday? Isn't this absolutely true? Is there no way to form a statement in such a way that it is absolutely true?
No. So it is solipsism. abe; I'm fairly certain that I'm reading them. Who wrote them is less certain. What does belief have to do with truth? Edited by ProtoTypical, : No reason given.
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
It's defined as true. So is everything a tautology? When we say that any atom with one electron is a hydrogen atom is that a tautology? Is it not an absolute truth that any atom with one electron is a hydrogen atom?
It's trivially true. Well its a start at least and shows that something can be absolutely true. From small cornerstones we can realize more profound truths. It seems to me that you are saying that we can not really know anything. What about mathematical truths? Is F=MA not always true? Or the speed of light in a vacuum?
Perception has everything to do with what we think is true. What we do - i.e. "reality" - is based on what we perceive as true, not on what "is" true. Are you saying that there is no connection between what we perceive is real and reality?
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Always? Until forever is over, how can we know about always? We can know by inference. I am nearly convinced that your position is correct although for some reason it seems to me that there must be some aspect to reality that is universal. I concede that my examples are piss poor. How about these - things evolve or perception is relative to the observer or time is sequential? Sort of mundane I suppose but if something were universally true then I guess that it would likely appear as something obvious.
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Think about an assumption you have to make - that you can know the truth through perception. Are you saying there is no doubt here? That you are not in a Matrix, or just a brain in a jar or what have you? No, trust me, I have lots of doubt but can we not know anything for sure? Postulating a matrix is the same as invoking a god or unicorns or any other product of the imagination.
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
I do doubt everything - but not necessarily absolutely everything. What? I think what you meant to say ( ) was something else. You can't have it both ways.
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Do you not see any conflict between
I do doubt everything and
There may be some things that I don't doubt ? Isn't everything every thing?
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Sure it is. How do you distinguish between a nitrogen moelcule that's touching the plate and a water molecule that's touching the plate and a carrot molecule that's touching th plate? There is nothing on the plate. Molecules do not touch each other.
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined:
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Ahhh so really there is only one molecule.
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
So give us a non-trivial example. Elements come from stars.
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
There were elements before there were stars. "Some elements come from stars" is as trivially true as "some dogs are brown". Maybe I should ask for your definition of an absolute truth. Why should triviality disqualify something? Is there some H or He in this universe that has not been through a star? Perhaps I over reached though. How about — Carbon comes from stars. Is that trivial?
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Unless we somehow establish that not a single carbon atom was formed anywhere but in a star I'm not sure 'Carbon comes from stars' can be considered an absolute truth. Are you saying then that because I can not prove a negative there is no such thing as an absolute truth?
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Bad example, Proto. Carbon-14 is a cosmogenic nuclide. Not made in stars. Nitpicker! Ok but it is not made without a star. If I add the qualifier that 'some' carbon comes from stars is that not absolutely true? Does the qualifier disqualify it?
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
How about this statement?
There is such a thing as reality that exists independent of consciousness.
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 371 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Straggler writes: PT writes: We certainly oprate on that basis. We might even say we consider this to be true. There is such a thing as reality that exists independent of consciousness.But it might be wrong, its not infallible, so how can it be absolute? Our perceptions may be wrong but not the reality itself. It is what it is. Being able to know what it is is something different. I might concede that we can not know it but can we not be certain that it must exist?
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