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Author Topic:   Biblical Eugenics - being wrong about how to colorize your goats
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1126 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 23 of 185 (706571)
09-14-2013 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Alias
09-14-2013 2:15 PM


Nonsense
Evolution is an imaginative thought. The same facts that support it support intelligent design.

This is patently false.

But it is off-topic here. Start up a new thread and we can discuss it at length.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Alias, posted 09-14-2013 2:15 PM Alias has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Alias, posted 09-14-2013 3:02 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1126 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 51 of 185 (706633)
09-15-2013 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Alias
09-15-2013 10:24 PM


Off-topic and nonsense besides
IT is very interesting that science, good philosophy and good theology agree.

Philosophy has been trying to find it's navel for 2,500 years with no measurable success.

Theology? That's a subject with no discernible subject matter.

Theology is never any help; it is searching in a dark cellar at midnight for a black cat that isn't there. Theologians can persuade themselves of anything.

Robert A. Heinlein

Science, on the other hand, has led us to huge advances in knowledge in the past few centuries, and in doing so has disproved many of the unevidenced tenets of religious belief and largely ignored the vacuous musings of philosophy.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 10:24 PM Alias has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 10:59 PM Coyote has responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1126 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 54 of 185 (706637)
09-15-2013 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Alias
09-15-2013 10:59 PM


Re: Off-topic and nonsense besides
Im guessing that you believe in evolution (understandable). Well greek philosophers argued evolution long before science theorized it. Seems like science is following the foot steps of philosophical idea.

A stopped clock is right twice a day. Philosophy has had a remarkable lack of success over the centuries.

And I don't "believe" in evolution--rather I accept the evidence for it. There is quite a difference between that and the approach of philosophy and religion.

Theology has plenty of subject matter including suggestions that the earth brought forth life. It too discusses evolution.

Theology = "Theology (from Greek Θεός meaning "God" and λογία, -logy, meaning "study of") is the systematic and rational study of concepts of God and their influences and of the nature of religious truths..."

It would seem only logical that such a study would start by proving the existence of god or gods, rather than assuming that existence and building massive houses of cards thereon.

Coyote writes:

Science, on the other hand, has led us to huge advances in knowledge in the past few centuries, and in doing so has disproved many of the unevidenced tenets of religious belief and largely ignored the vacuous musings of philosophy.

No disagreement but science is rather lost without fresh ideas, you know those imaginative ones that come from free thought.

IMO, it is better to have free thought because it is the leading path way. I'm not arguing in favor of the toe, just making a point which renders your point and quotes moot.


Free thought is a fine idea, but much of it became possible only after the Renaissance and the Enlightenment when people no longer had to kowtow to the dictates of religion.

Religions in general, and fundamentalist religions in particular, abhor the very idea of free thought, or of following the evidence wherever it leads. They will tell you how you should believe, and no questions need to be asked!

Bah!


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 10:59 PM Alias has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 11:37 PM Coyote has responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1126 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 56 of 185 (706639)
09-16-2013 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Alias
09-15-2013 11:37 PM


Re: Off-topic and nonsense besides
I'm afraid we are getting too far off-topic.

I would encourage you to start a separate thread so we could continue these thoughts.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Alias, posted 09-15-2013 11:37 PM Alias has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Alias, posted 09-16-2013 9:23 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1126 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 156 of 185 (707030)
09-20-2013 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by marc9000
09-20-2013 9:23 PM


Evidence
...but much of what is recorded as happening in Biblical times doesn't agree with that, the really long lives of people such as Moses, Abraham, Isaac, many others as only one example.

So, where is the scientific evidence for those long lives?

This thread is in the Science Forums, so evidence is required. Is there any confirmation of those extraordinary biblical claims?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by marc9000, posted 09-20-2013 9:23 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by marc9000, posted 09-22-2013 2:27 PM Coyote has responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1126 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 162 of 185 (707073)
09-22-2013 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by marc9000
09-22-2013 2:27 PM


Re: Evidence
In addition to not being the only source of knowledge, science isn't the only source of evidence.

No problem. You deal with magic, superstition, wishful thinking, old wives tales, folklore, what the stars foretell and what the neighbors think, omens, public opinion, astromancy, spells, Ouija boards, anecdotes, Da Vinci codes, tarot cards, sorcery, seances, sore bunions, black cats, divine revelation, table tipping, witch doctors, crystals and crystal balls, numerology, divination, faith healing, miracles, palm reading, the unguessable verdict of history, magic tea leaves, new age mumbo-jumbo, hoodoo, voodoo and all that other weird stuff.

I'll stick with science.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by marc9000, posted 09-22-2013 2:27 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by marc9000, posted 09-22-2013 7:22 PM Coyote has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1126 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(4)
Message 166 of 185 (707131)
09-23-2013 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by marc9000
09-23-2013 8:53 PM


Wrong...
By listening to atheist scientists, who reach conclusions first, then find "evidence" that leads to them?

That is the way religious apologists work, not the way scientists work.

And your extreme bias, referring automatically to scientists as "atheists" and misrepresenting the scientific method, is very telling.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by marc9000, posted 09-23-2013 8:53 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
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