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Author Topic:   WTF is wrong with people
frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 1 of 457 (707461)
09-27-2013 11:18 AM


Is about half of the world population, mentally retarded or what?

Explaining evolution or global warming or germ theory seems simple as the concepts are simple to grasp. Yet some people just dont seem to be able to grasp such simple concepts. Now i know that by all common measurement i have an above average IQ but i know that these thinks cant be that hard of a human of average intelligence to understand. But yet no matter how diligently you lead them from point A to point B to point C they get lost. But on the other hand they have no problems believing wild and crazy shit like reptilian aliens hijacking our governments, Mayan end of the world scenarios, daemons causing illness, Creationism, wide conspiracies among scientists (in some cases reptilian aliens or daemons pretending to be human scientists) to fraudulently support an untruth and ignore the real truth that hey know.

When i met my first creationist i thought he was a Poe or a satirist, then i thought he was a minor sect member but half of the US believes this bullshit.

Now can someone explain to me how this and worse can be still going on in the 21 century.

How do we stop it, or what can be done about it?


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

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Replies to this message:
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frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 13 of 457 (707506)
09-27-2013 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Faith
09-27-2013 3:25 PM


Re: so much for smarts
Um, just marveling here at your amazing confidence in what YOU believe, such hubris, such adamantine conviction you bring to sitting in judgment on your fellow human beings based only on your own opinions as grasped only by your own fallible intellect.

Um yea i got data, evidence and the scientific community on my side you have a translation of a translation of a translation of a ... of a bronze age book.


Do "they" really in fact "get lost" or what does this mean anyway? [Do you have some examples of this "they" by the way or are we just required to believe you that a whole bunch of "they's" do in fact "get lost" whatever that means?]

HMM ok you have been here for a while can you in your own words explain what the theory of evolution is.

Sure, most of that is probably erroneous, but then so is evolution to many who really DO think it through, probably a lot of the thinking behind global warming too for that matter [but give us a break here, who doesn't believe germ theory? A tribelet of oh five or six hundred hiding out in the Himalayas or what?]

Naw a bit closer than that like say Weston, Wisconsin
http://content.time.com/...on/article/0,8599,1877352,00.html

Again your hubris is breathtaking. You call opinion "truth" and want to do away with the opinions of those who disagree with you. Remarkable. In fact this attitude is far more remarkable in the 21st century than the ideas that vex you so. Versions of which are held by far less than half the world's population, you know, you really shouldn't sling around such statistical claims like that.

I have no problem with reasonable opinions like say if someone where to say god helped evolution along sure why not if your god is chance and its not hurting anyone. But when opinnions like humans cant cause climate change because god controlls the weather make in to the public forum and ifnluance public policy then i am pissed off our children will suffer because some cant come to terms with reality and rather believe in their magic sky daddy.

But let me suggest one thing: some human beings have had direct experience of supernatural things. Clearly you have not or you've simply rationalized it away if you have. Such experiences, being denied by the official establishment POV which you represent, lead people into all sorts of untenable possibilities or interpretations. Nevertheless the experiences are very real and those who have them rightly ignore the flimsy rationalistic type thought you represent. Ignore it with eyerolls and shrugs and go about their business of trying to figure it all out without your help.

There are 1001 rational explanations for those "supernatural"
experiences im currently waiting on the results of an experiment that tests the people who had outer body experiences while in surgery. The experiment is simple they just put some pictures on the top of the shelves in the OR rooms and are asking people who claim those experiences if they saw them, and what where they. What do you think the result will be?

Now apart from that we do have the Bible which some of us believe IS the word of the Creator God, and we believe it for good evidenced reasons, many of which have been presented here though we understand it's all over your head so we don't expect you to know what we're talking about. It's the key to the supernatural world for those who "get it" though.

Yea can you take a ruler to your god and mesure how long his d... um hair is ? Or any other measuring device that is OBJECTIVE to get any kind of data. Or do i have to not eat for 5 days, have a pint of wine with a drop of LSD in it and stand in a powerful EM field to experience your god.

Half"? WHICH "bullshit?" Slingin around those made up statistics again. Some representative of evidenced rationality you are.

Creationism 46% of americans.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...-creationism_n_1571127.html

Well I guess you could get yourself elected a secular Pope of sorts and inaugurate an Inquisition against all those who disagree with you. Unfortunately I suspect you could find quite a few followers.

Naw id just round you up and put you in Education camps with a big sign on the exit GOD CANNOT SET YOU FREE LOL

I have no idea what to do but you people are starting to put humanity as a whole at risk global warming denyers are putting our whole race at risk, evolution deniers are putting our education and medical progress at risk...

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

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frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 14 of 457 (707508)
09-27-2013 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Diomedes
09-27-2013 12:59 PM


To be honest, I don't believe the concepts themselves are the problem. I think it is the rampant denial permeating in our society that is the true root cause. Coupled with a great deal of mis-information put forth by individuals who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

Probably true, and sad.

I am pretty certain the Koch Brothers have no illusions about the true nature of Global Warming. But nonetheless, their business would be threatened if the environmental folks got traction with their ideas. Additionally, numerous individuals, including working middle class have jobs associated with various energy sector jobs and their livelihood is at stake.

Yea well in the case of Global Warming the livelyhood of the entire population of Earth is at stake.


I will say that the denial of evolution however is beyond idiotic. The agenda there is strictly religious in nature (as we all know) and acceptance of the theory would have no impact on our economy as a whole. Except for maybe a few scam artists like Eric Hovind or Ken Ham going out of business. No loss there.

Yea but how can that be possible when we have a rational brain. Do some people lack this ability or do they ave some genetic programming that makes them follow what the alpha male says no matter what reason says. If Eric Hovind said the earth is flat it has 4 corners, and a dome above it anyone who says otherwise is a lier or a daemon from hell including all of NASA. How many would believe him?


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frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 15 of 457 (707509)
09-27-2013 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by nwr
09-27-2013 1:46 PM



I don't think that's true. What probably is true, is that half of the US are unwilling to take a stand against such nonsense.

Um sure...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...-creationism_n_1571127.html


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

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frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 16 of 457 (707510)
09-27-2013 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
09-27-2013 4:33 PM


Re: You tolerate and pity them and continue to try to help them.
Yes Virginia, such people exist and all you can do for them is treat them kindly, try to protect them, have pity on them and never stop trying to educate them.

Yea but its like Sisyphus labour.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

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frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(3)
Message 19 of 457 (707513)
09-27-2013 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
09-27-2013 7:34 PM


Re: so much for smarts
You got "data" and "evidence" for your wild statistics about half the human race believing such and so? Funny you didn't supply any in your post, just hyperbolically opined away as if you were making any sense. As I said, all you have is your own opinion based on your own fallible mind, you showed no evidence for anything you said.

Yea i think i gave you a link about how many Americans believe in creationism, as for the other population of earth some 20% Britons believe Conan the Barbarian was a real person and then you have the Muslims world that denys evolution, or the mixing of salt and fresh water, a whole lot of the world population denys climate change ..... Half of the world being mentally ill was a best guess it could very possibly be worse.



Do "they" really in fact "get lost" or what does this mean anyway? [Do you have some examples of this "they" by the way or are we just required to believe you that a whole bunch of "they's" do in fact "get lost" whatever that means?]


HMM ok you have been here for a while can you in your own words explain what the theory of evolution is.

I challenged you to show that your wild accusation has any truth to it, which I know it doesn't, and you come back asking me to define the theory of evolution? BAAAAD debate form there.

Which version of the ToE would you like me to spell out, Darwin's or Dawkins' or whichever one is current at EvC designed to suit whatever issue they want it to answer?


Yea you kind of proved my point thnx.

The people in Weston Wisconsin do rather represent a tribelet tucked away in the Himalayas, that is, that belief system is not held by very many people, and most of them are not Christians by the way, proving you wrong that great numbers can be smeared with the accusation of a failure to grasp germ theory, but you are also wrong to suggest that THEY deny germ theory too; they merely believe that God is sovereign over germs. Which I believe also. Where I differ with them is in refusing to assume that God will heal according to my directives and override ordinary means. I also believe that God in His mercy guided humanity to the understanding of germ theory as well as all the LEGITIMATE scientific knowledge we possess. Which is most of it, mainly excluding the ToE.

You do know that if you exlude evolution half of modern medicine goes down the drain with it for example we keep making stronger antibiotics because germs are evolving resistance to the ones we use. Without Evolution we dont need to make new antibiotics

The objections to global warming as I understand it have absolutely nothing whatever to do with spiritual or religious ideas and are argued entirely from scientific facts. You simply disagree with those arguments. This is pure opinion against opinion. Since you are convinced of the global warming scenario you can demonize those of a differing SCIENTIFIC persuasion as bringing calamity on the world, but you are lumping together all kinds of things that don't belong together. I personally do not have a settled opinion on this matter but I don't think those who disagree with global warming should be dismissed as not thinking scientifically. This is a TRUE case of differing views of actual EVIDENCE.

Yea 99% or roughly so agre that climate change is caused by man, A lot of those that disagree with those scientists not all do so because god would not let that happen, or simply because god is the guy who controls the weather.

Or from the mouth of one of your flock believing in climate change is an insult to god.

Your "rational explanations" for the supernatural experiences people KNOW they have had are just your own hot air, Frako. There are plenty of falsifications, frauds and deceptions of course, but there is also the real thing and all you are doing with all those IQ smarts is blowing smoke in the service of your own prejudices.

Ok pick a supernatural event and il rip it apart its hard to rip them appart all at once.

Biblical Creationism does not belong in the same category with all the other phenomena you are talking about. Your whole approach to the issues is stupid and irresponsible.

Yes it belongs on the shelf with Zeus, Thor, and the Cracken.

Because our observations, objective measurements, and experiments have showed it dint happen that way and not 6000 years ago.

That's just plain lying slander to say that medical progress is put at risk by those who know that evolution is a fraud. NO Christian denies medical progress. It has nothing to do with evolution, that's a mental trick you all pull on yourselves. Stupid lying slander. The kind that DOES call for Inquisitions against people.

Ok say we make a virus that attacks cancer cells and only cancer cells uses them like any other virus turns them in to a factory of viruses that spread to other cancer cells. Without the TOE this would be a fabulous idea, cancer cured. With the TOE its a potential disaster if the virus that only attacks cancer cells should ever mutate to attack normal cells too.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.

Edited by frako, : Lapsus


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 09-27-2013 7:34 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 25 of 457 (707565)
09-28-2013 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Faith
09-28-2013 2:24 PM


Re: so much for smarts
Look, your OP was simply a mess of misrepresentations and wild assertions. You are wrong about anyone denying germ theory, so admit it, and you are wrong about believers in whatever you are mistaking for religious principles, which is beyond me to sort out, denying the value of medical advances, which Christians thank God for. You are ignorant, Frako, of the thinking of your opponents in all the areas you are so blithely claiming to know what you are talking about.

Yea thats the problem you thank god for medical advancements while it was the scientist who made those advancements. And faith healing is a denial of germ theory, as is praying for healing.

U.S. death toll among infants and children: In 1998-APR, Dr. Seth Asser, a critical-care pediatrician at Methodist Children's Hospital in San Antonio, and Rita Swan, head of the advocacy group Children's Healthcare is a Legal Duty (CHILD) authored a paper in the professional journal Pediatrics. Asser studied 172 reported deaths of infants and children between 1975 and 1995. Deaths were found in 34 states among members of 23 religious groups. They belonged to families of Christian Scientist, Faith Tabernacle, Faith Assembly and several other religious groups that practice faith healing. He compared the cause of death with the expected survival rates if the children had received routine medical care. They found:

bullet 140 children would have had a 90% chance of surviving if they had been treated medically.

bullet 18 children would have had a 50 to 90% chance of surviving

bullet 11 children would have received some benefits from medical care

bullet 3 would not have been helped from medical care

From http://www.religioustolerance.org/medical3.htm

Yea they dont deny medical advancements because of their foolish beliefs. I guess when Jesus said "Do not fear; only believe, and she will be well" he wasn't talking about those 150 kids.

Yes, as No Nukes says, most of evolutionism's ridiculous charges against creationists can be easily answered if you'd just recognize that we have no problem with "microevolution" or in other words, NORMAL VARIATION. You just refuse to understand the thinking of your opponents and go on and on misrepresenting us. What does that accomplish for you? A false pride at least. AND WE ALSO are aware of the dangers of mutations, so what's your point about the virus attacking cancer cells? Sheesh, at least learn something about the terms of the argument you are so wildly carrying on about.

The problem is you dont get it there is no micro or macro evolution that was made up by creationist its only evolution.

Let me try to give you an example of what you are saying. Eating too much for a short time will make you gain weight but eating too much for a long time will not make you fat.

Its insane what you are proposing. Totally out of touch with reality and reason.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

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frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 30 of 457 (707578)
09-28-2013 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
09-28-2013 3:24 PM


Re: so much for smarts
There you go with your wild assertions again. Hey, I've many times proposed just HOW microevolution does not become macroevolution. And keep in mind that I resent the terminology as much as you do. "Microevolution" is a term that was spawned out of evolutionist assumptions, that merely describes what was always previously understood to be normal variation within the genome of a Species or Kind. The fact that genomes differ ought to be some kind of clue that there are boundaries involved anyway. But my argument is that the very genetic processes that bring about phenotypic variations of necessity reduce the genetic potentials from population to population. This is a NECESSARY development, it MUST happen or you will not get new variations, new breeds etc. You have to get rid of the competing genetic material. You aren't going to get a Hereford if the breed contains alleles for Black Angus. Etc. this is elementary. You guys are simply blinded by theory, keep conjuring with pure fantasy instead of looking at reality. Anyway, eventually this NATURAL AND INEVITABLE reduction in genetic diversity (which beneficial mutation would only interfere with by the way) leads through many daughter populations to a condition beyond which no further variation, i.e., evolution is possible. Hey, this works, and it means that evolution comes to a natural end down any line of variation. Wrap your IQ around that.

Ok wrap your head around this you admitt we can get new breeds. Say a small dog. I take the small dog breed and breed them to be hairless. We get a new breed small hairless dog. I breed the hairless small dog breed further so they have no tails or verry small ones. I breed the hairless small dog with no tail further to get one with giant fangs. I breed the small hairless tailles giant fang dog further to get a breed with a fused back. I breed the small hairless tailles, giant fang, fused spine dog further to get one with a short snout, i breed the small hairless, tailles, giant fang, fused spine, short snout dog further to get short fromt legs, i breed the short hairless, tailles giant fang, fused spine, short snout, short front leg dog further with one with long legs at the back, i breed the short, hairless, tailles, giant fang, fused spine, short snout, short front large back leg dog further ......

Yes it always remains a dog like we will always be apes, and primates, and mammals ....

Thats evolution with man as the selector.

What is stopping me from going further

In natural selection sometimes the selective pressure is not as strong as in other times so the population seems to peak. But these pressures constantly change what was once a huge advantage over other species can be a hindernece like a large size when food is scarce. Or perfect sabre teeth when your pray is extinct ....


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

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This message is a reply to:
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frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 36 of 457 (707592)
09-28-2013 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Faith
09-28-2013 3:32 PM


Re: so much for smarts
Hey, faith healing does NOT deny germ theory, nor is prayer a denial of it. Try learning something for a change. I don't believe in that kind of total trust in faith healing, but I nevertheless don't accuse them of denying simple facts like germ theory. Trust in God to heal, i.e. faith healing expects God to override germ theory, it does not deny germ theory. Also prayer ASKS God to override germ theory, it does not deny it. You are lying about what we believe.

Yea not getting your kid to a doctor and instead praying for the illness to go away is not denial of germ theory. Because im sure the parents praying for their children knew that the actual cause was germs reaking havoc on their childs body that could be cured with a few antibiotic pills but instead they chose the better option of asking a magic sky daddy above the dome that covers the earth to make them stop. Clearly a very sane decision nothing wrong with it.

(at least when i read such stories i thought they where just morons who dont know what germ theory really is and believe illness is caused by daemons)

I just wonder why douring the space race you dint just pray the astronauts to the moon. No need for rockets when god could have just override the theory of gravity and spacial location it would have been much cheaper.

And its not just faith healing its stuff like when the last pope told the most STD infected continent of the world that condoms are EVIL.

Look techincally i would have no problem with creationists if they followed jeasuses teachings and prayed at home and not get involved in the affairs of sane rational people. But you are negating the only real tool we have to make this world a better place.

Hmm desieses transmitted by sex well we cant stop them from having sex i know lets give them condoms.
Religious fanatic: THEY ARE EVIL FROM THE DEVIL DONT USE THEM OR YOU WILL GO TO HELLLL!!!!!

Hmm stem cell reacherch has loads of potential from letting people walk again, to new organs basicly a revolution in medicine
Religious fanatic: THEYR KILLING BABIES THOSE GODLES SCIENTISTS ITS THE DEVILS WORK IF YOU SUPPORT IT YOU WIL GO TO HELLL!!!

Or old theories basicly fact like evolution we have 150 years of testing, gathering data, every new piece of information that comes along confirms it
Religius fanatic: MY BOOK SAYS GOD MADE THE ANIMALS THEY DINT EVOLVE YOU WONT TEACH THAT SATANIC TEORY TO MY CHILDREN YOU ARE GOING TO HELL!!

Its fucking insane like there are 2 kinds of people in this world the ones that live in reality and the ones who live in an imaginary world.

Look if you asked 100 plubers if you need to change the pipes in your home and 99 said yes you probably would right.

If you asked 100 doctors and 99 told you need an operation you would get one right.

Why is it when you ask 100 scientists in the field of evolution and 99.99 tell you its true. You run back to get the plumbers opinion on the subject.

Look im sorry you might believe the earth is 6000 years old because your book says so. But in reality its not we have numerous different dating techniques that run on different principles and different clocks that all agree that its not.

You might think all animals where created in their cournet form but im sorry your book is wrong again we have 150 years of data that says they evolved Museums are funcking running out of storage space there are so many fossils. The science of genetics a compleatly different field agreas with evolution ....

You might think that that couring leprosy is easy if you have 2 birds handy

Leviticus 14:1-57 ESV / 41 helpful votes

The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “This shall be the law of the leprous person for the day of his cleansing. He shall be brought to the priest, and the priest shall go out of the camp, and the priest shall look. Then, if the case of leprous disease is healed in the leprous person, the priest shall command them to take for him who is to be cleansed two live clean birds and cedarwood and scarlet yarn and hyssop. And the priest shall command them to kill one of the birds in an earthenware vessel over fresh water. ...


(everything in the bile is true, because god wrote the bible it says so right in the bible then it folows that everything in the bible is true because god ... right)

But its not you need Leprostatic agetns discovered by the very same scientific method that discovered the reason for the diversity of life Evolution.

P.s Leprosy evolved too you need the newerd drugs the old ones dont work any more.


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frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 38 of 457 (707595)
09-28-2013 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Faith
09-28-2013 7:13 PM


Re: so much for smarts
This is all fantasy, frako, because you don't know if you can get any of this from the given genetic material, and you are ignoring the very real possibility of running into the problem of genetic depletion which plagues all breeding programs that aren't careful to keep the level of diversity up, which compromises how far they can go toward a particular trait but that's reality for you. It is also what fuels conservation programs in the wild, as natural selection may isolate a group with such depleted genetic diversity it threatens the creature's survival.

You mean like Lions right their bottleneck gave the males really bad sperm many tailed many headed ... Real bad for procreation Yea all 35 000 of them. They are doing fine some are still fighting to put them on the endangered species list but as long as humans dont hunt them there is no problem.

Its all about pressures in nature the dog i was going to breed would have no chance of surviving in the wild and of course i would need a stable population but in an enviorment where those traits are considered good it would have no problem.

The thing is you say there are mutations, or varriations or changes in the genetic code but cant fathom how i could get something new from a changing genetic code????

You may or may not be able to get a hairless breed by starting from the small dog you have in mind. And if you can you may not have enough genetic diversity left in the genome to get the small tailed version of the small hairless breed you next have in mind, and so on from there. You can only work with what you actually have, you can't invent the possibilities out of your own imagination, but that's all you are doing here; you are just making all this up, which is what evolutionists do of course, but it aint science.

Ok say the bottom code is our dog you said the code can change or mutate. To get the dog i need i need a code that says C D E F G A B

gen 1 A B C D E F G

Gen 2 ABCDEFF USELESS dont let them breed

GEN 3 ABCDEFB Has a trait i need these suckers breed from now on

Gen 4 BBCDEFB USELESS dont let them breed

Gen 5 CBCDEFB Fantastic these sucers get to breed

It might take a while since the Mutation is RANDOM but the selection is NOT RANDOM. Neither is selection random in nature those that make more babies then the rest win.

What you are failing to grasp here, as all you guys do who think that your imagination is sufficient to define actual reality, is that natural selection REDUCES the genetic diversity in the new population it creates. It must do so in order to create the new phenotype. All forms of selection, meaning any way a new population is created by a small portion of numbers from a previous population, which is how ALL new breeds develop, REDUCES the genetic possibilities in the new population. You do not have an endless series of possible new variations for this reason. Eventually you run out of genetic possibilities, and that is what happens IN REALITY with both domestic breeding programs and selection in the wild.

I have about half of any cratures DNA to play with by just changing the coding JUNK DNA, and then there are also additions and deletions, cromosome fusions, retroviral "injections".... I dont run out of dna to code stuff so i dont run out of possibilities I have endles possibilities.

As for the lack of genetic diversity yes that can be a problem we found out when our beloved banana disappeared and got replaced by this shit that calls it self a banana. Why because they where all clones as they are now: They cant reproduce bcause they are seedless.

But with time there comes genetic diversity within a new species because that is what evolution does is tinker with the knobs adds knobs removes knobs... You can place a close family of mice on an island come back 300 years and find 8 different species of mice living there. Or you let loos a few Anolis lizards on 14 different islands whitout any lizards there before and watch them evolve in just 16 years.
Or like the lions sure right now they are having problems to conceive because they have really bad sperm but that is gonna fix itself via natural selection. As long as humans dont start hunting them again.

This simple fact of genetics is what spells doom for the very possibility of macroevolution. May your IQ points some day come to recognize this fact.

The simple fact of genetics is the last nail in the coffin for creationism.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

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frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 39 of 457 (707596)
09-28-2013 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
09-28-2013 7:29 PM


Re: so much for smarts
I hope that eventually you will give up your aggressive misrepresentations out of your incredible depths of ignorance about what people believe, and especially your nonsense about what REALITY is, but meanwhile there is no point in answering such ignorant rants.

Ok sure why dont you tell me what you specificly believe i admit i dint ask you specificly what you believe first because there are as many versions of creationism as there are creationists.

From dinosaur nostrils catching fire

To moon

bukake

Crockoduck deniers

Banana proof of godists

no life in peanutbutter means god

Kent hovind

Laminin a symbol of jesus on a crossers


...
...
...

So plees do tell me what you specificly, believe.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 09-28-2013 7:29 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 41 of 457 (707627)
09-29-2013 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Faith
09-28-2013 9:44 PM


Re: so much for smarts
Then if you try to increase the diversity you'll simply put a stop to the breeding process which is putting a stop to evolution another way. ANYTHING that increases genetic diversity will INTERFERE with the breed you want to develop.

Yea because when you get a new breed like say a German sheppard no matter how many generations of that dog you make they will always be genetical cousins because "micorevolution" stops when you get a new breed. If i just keep the same presures selcting for color size and furryines everyithing elese can change making them geneticly diverse sure some might have green eyes, or bad bones or good bones, or are smart or doumb but that is what makes genetic diversity I can apply NEW pressures to get rid of undesirable traits reducing the diversity again or just let natural selection take its course with much weaker pressures on the other stuff while only sselecting myself for the fur color size.

If you want new variations or breeds, i.e. evolution, you HAVE to have reduced genetic diversity and that eventually spells doom to evolution down that particular track.

Yea if a wirus comes along that attacs them while their population is low sure they get whipped out because of the lack of genetic diversity, But once they breed and breed every generation having minor changes their genetic diversity grows. The diversity that is selected for if the pressures havent changed stay, but there are loads of other possible mutations that are neutral that are not selected or or against that can increase diversity.

If on the other hand you want to increase your genetic diversity to avoid getting to that end point then you CANNOT PRESERVE YOUR BREED. You can't have it both ways.

So i cant place a few say 5 pairs lizards on an island and watch them evolve in to a different SPECIES (unable to breed with their ancestor species), because they will never be enough geneticly diverse to EVOLVE

OMG a mirracle happened

Omg a noter MIRACLE god is grate isnt he
http://www.nytimes.com/...evolution-is-found-in-lizards.html

And omg another miracle Feroe hous mice here is a detailed study of this miracle Isnt god grate for making new spoecies as we know "macroevolution" or speciation NEVER CAN HAPPEN
http://www.setur.fo/...the_charismatic_Faroe_house_mouse.pdf


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Faith, posted 09-28-2013 9:44 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 09-29-2013 5:50 PM frako has not yet responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(2)
Message 53 of 457 (707656)
09-30-2013 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Faith
09-29-2013 11:27 PM


Re: Back on topic
Since all you have is theory and no evidence for any of this, asking me for evidence is a bit disingenuous. What I have is reasoning from my own theory and it holds together very nicely to explain what actually exists and occurs both in nature and in domestic breeding.

Ok first of all a Theory is the best explenation for the evidence at hand, it has to work 100% of the time and explain all the evidence or else its junked.

Secondly you dont have a THEORY you at best have a hypothesis, you have to test your hypothesis to see if it works 100% of the time and eplains every single piece of evidence at hand.

Second, of course there were no millions of years in any case, mutations or not. If there had been the accumulation of mutations WOULD have wiped it all out millions of years ago.

About 30 DIFFERENT dating methods working on DIFFERENT clocks and DIFFERENT principles ALL AGREE that the world is no where close to 10 000 years old or less your "theory" does not allow for such a long period of time it gets scrapped if you publish it it might one day be a footnote in some university school book as a failed theory.

But for you the scientific method does not matter since you ignore this "slight" hole in your "theory" and continue on as if it does not matter.

First of all WHAT mutations are you talking about? I'm only talking about built-in genetic possibilities, range of alleles per gene etc. These are shuffled with each new population isolation, and eventually those that define the new traits remain while others drop out. The dropping out is the genetic decrease I'm talking about.

NO built in genetic possibilities are NOT MUTATIONS a mutation is a MISTAKE in the COPYING of the GENOME. As an example a gen that was TCGA in the parent is TCCA in the offspring. For a few million you can have your whole genome decoded and the genome of your parrents and you will find that about 4 Gens are different from both your parrent's. You are a mutant as am i and every other living thing on the planet. Most likely those mutations are "natural" dont give you any advantage or hindernce but its possible that they do give you an advantage or a disadvantage.

VERY VERY few are beneficial and those that are are of a very iffy sort, often involving some kind of exchange as the case with sickle cell anemia providing protection from malaria. Not the stuff of healthy genetics.

It all depends on the environment

Who do you think has a better chance of surviving if a new ice age comes You or him

But on the other hand who do you think has a better chance of getting laied and having children with no ice age you or him?

And that is how evolution works a mutation that helps the individual in a given enviorment has a slightly better chance of getting passed on to the next generation who have a slightly better chance of passing it on to the next and the next and the next....

While a mutation that hinders an individual has a lesser or no chance of getting passed on to the next generation.

This is caused when an EXTRA CHUNK of genes appears on the X chromosome. A chinise and a mexican Hypertrichosis suferrer both had an extra chunk in the same place but the chunk was DIFFERENT its assumed that this extra chunk activates the SOX3 gen.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 09-29-2013 11:27 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 09-30-2013 4:24 PM frako has responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 61 of 457 (707724)
09-30-2013 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
09-30-2013 4:24 PM


Re: Back on topic

All you did in that post was repeat the usual Evo Credo, nothing that isn't already familiar to us all.

Apparently not as you could not see that mutations can cause genetic diversity in a population with a low genetic diversety.

As for the mutations each of us possess individually, I would expect some of them to develop genetic disease.

YES by George you got 1 part of it.

By this you must also concede that most mutations would do nothing ei not be a hindrance or an advantage right.

Now take a look at the picture above the man had a mutation a clump of EXTRA genes on his X chromosome. If there wa an ice age would you consider his mutation to be beneficial? Like helping him not to freeze to death or at least adding an extra proteciton to his face.

And given this can you for 5 seconds imagine that his better chance to survive however small increases his chance to have children compared to other people. And His children also bearing the same mutation the same extra genes on their X chromosome would also have a better chance of surviving hence having children of their own with the same mutation.

And that is evolution.

Mutations ARE mistakes, as you say, mistakes in the replication of the genome, and also in the bigger sense that they are some kind of disease process in themselves, not part of the normal functioning of the genome.

Yes mutations are RANDOM mistakes coupled with NOT-RANDOM natural selection you have evolution.

Given the enviorment just about any mutation can be good or bad.

The picture above in the current environment is more probably a hindernece to the man to have children and even if he does his children will have the same hindrance too compared to "normal" mutants so his line will probably vanish as will the unique genetic mutation from the human gen pool. But in a different environment he could have an upper hand.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 09-30-2013 4:24 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
frako
Member
Posts: 2814
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 62 of 457 (707727)
09-30-2013 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
09-30-2013 4:24 PM


Re: Back on topic
That's just part of the Evo Fantasy.

Yea and while evo fantasy is now responsible for making better planes.

http://aero.stanford.edu/reports/VKI_Evolutionary_Kroo_A.pdf

And you will see this design method being used more and more frequently.

Whyt is your fantasy of a magic man poofing everything in to existence doing apart from fighting science and promoting ignorance.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Click if you dare!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 09-30-2013 4:24 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Faith, posted 09-30-2013 8:15 PM frako has responded

    
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