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Author Topic:   Peanut Gallery for Great debate: radiocarbon dating, Mindspawn and Coyote/RAZD
Pressie
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Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 47 of 305 (711081)
11-14-2013 10:50 PM


Thank you
This thread is a keeper. What a gold mine of information, neatly compressed in a few pages.

Thank you all very, very much for your hard work!

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


    
Pressie
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Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 104 of 305 (711534)
11-19-2013 11:31 PM


It's very obvious that mindpawn only reads and believes the opinions of some 'science' teacher in Chicago; a 'science' teacher who's never ever done any of the work himself, but thinks that writing what-if's can be called 'research'.

He believes that the thousands of scientists who actually go get dirty, do the work themselves and publish every little step of their research are all wrong. And part of a global conspiracy.

And nothing will change his mind about it.

It has been a great thread for people to learn a lot, though.

1. How carbon dating works; the conscilience behind it and how it's fine-tuned (pun intended) to get more accurate dates.
2. The power of delusion over a person.
3. A prime example of cognitive dissonance in action.
4. The dangers of religion and what motivates people to fly into buildings for their beliefs.


    
Pressie
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Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 107 of 305 (711541)
11-20-2013 2:56 AM


No offence, but this was funny
Sorry guys, but this one was very funny ( his post number 35). I shouldn’t laugh, but I really, really can’t help it.
mindspawn writes:

In post 27 I also posted evidence of Europe undergoing dryer spells during the Holocene which would affect German/Irish chronologies.

Does mindspawn even know that we currently live in the Holocene? Wet spells, dry spells, everything inbetween happens…and I'm sure that those hundreds of thousands of specialist scientists are aware of it. You don't even have to be a specialist to know it.
Replies to this message:
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Pressie
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Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 161 of 305 (712210)
11-29-2013 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by Atheos canadensis
11-28-2013 10:42 PM


I got this abstract from somewhere, I can't remember where (saved it without a source).

Just remember that I know nothing about dendrology and might have interpreted it incorrectly; RAZD will know more than me:

Lammerts, Walter E., "Are the Bristlecone Pine Trees Really So Old?" Creation Research Society Quarterly, volume 20, September 1983, pp. 108-115.

The abstract of the propaganda reads:

quote:
Various treatments were given to 8-month-old bristle-cone pine seedlings; and it was found that supplementing the winter day length with a 250-watt heat lamp in order to give a total of 16 hours of illumination proved most effective. The lamp was placed about three feet above the seedlings, and the temperature in the growth chamber was kept at about 70'F. Those which received a short (circa 21 days) drought stress period in August of the third growing season showed up having one more growth ring than the control seedlings, that is four growth rings instead of three. Also seedlings which received a two week drought stress period in August of the fourth growing season showed a similar extra growth ring. The bearing of this on the estimates of the age of the bristle-cone pine forest is discussed. Under the San Francisco type of both spring and fall rainfall with a relatively dry period in the summer the young forests on the White Mountains would have grown an extra ring per year quite often. Accordingly it is believed that the presumed 7100 year age postulated for these trees by Ferguson would be reduced to about 5600 years, on the assumption that extra rings would be formed by stress during about 50% of the years between the end of the Flood and about 1200 A.D.

This basically means that he created artificial conditions in a laboratory. Conditions where he artificially produced extra growth seasons and thereby extra growth rings by simulating shorter seasons. In effect he made the year 'shorter' from the viewpoint of the tree; thus growing more 'annual' rings.

Then he pretended that those conditions applied in reality and also pretended that coastal San Fransico type weather would also apply at the top of the Sierra Nevadas.

To me it seems as if our boy was dishonest.

Edited by Pressie, : Spelling


This message is a reply to:
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Pressie
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Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 224 of 305 (712462)
12-04-2013 12:46 AM


Comic relief
For my daily dose of comic relief, I followed the link provided by mindpawn in his message 86.

http://www.detectingdesign.com/carbon14.html

Boy, was it funny. It starts with:

Carbon-14
Sean D. Pitman M.D.

I was wondering what this wonderful Medical Doctor would be able to everyone about the subject. So, I kept reading.

To me, as someone who knows a little bit about coal, this was one of the funniest parts:

There is yet another very interesting problem with 14C dating. Significant amounts of carbon-14 have been detected in specimens previously thought to be millions of years old, to include coal, oil, and even carboniferous portions of fossils belonging to dinosaurs etc. Of course this would seem to be impossible because of the fact that carbon-14 in any amount cannot theoretically exist beyond 75,000 to at most 100,000 years. These ancient fossils should have no carbon-14 remaining at all.
My bold

I wonder if Dr Pitman lives in the Atacama desert? Does he even know about something we call rain? Does he know what happens to that water? I'll give him a hint; rain water doesn't just disappear. A lot of it sinks into the soil. And coal seams are very permeable. And the coal macerals adsorp a lot of gasses...including the C-14 the rain water picked up in the atmosphere...

So, no, I would never expect any coal to have 'no carbon-14 at all'. In fact, I'll expect them to have lots of C-14. No matter what the age is. Only clowns will test for C-14 in coal and then expect to get a correct age...

We could start a thread called: Creationist nearly discovers rain..

Maybe Dr Pitman should stick to being a medical doctor. Though, I wouldn't go to him if I feel a bit ill. He probably will attribute a common cold to some magical Fluddy...

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Coyote, posted 12-04-2013 5:49 AM Pressie has responded
 Message 230 by Pollux, posted 12-04-2013 7:09 AM Pressie has responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 225 of 305 (712465)
12-04-2013 5:04 AM


Goodness gracious, I'm trying to work my way through the numerous references provided by RAZD. Understand some of it. Others... well not so much, but I'm trying.

Hope I get a EVC forum degree or something on dendrology and carbon dating after these. Or at least some award.

Thanks RAZD. It's amazing.


    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 227 of 305 (712467)
12-04-2013 6:21 AM


Who's this Keenan?
mindspawn mentioned the name and I'm trying to figure out who or what he is. From what I can get on the net, it seems as if he's Douglas Keenan.

From what I can gather, it seems as if he's a climate change denier who writes a lot. Nothing about his qualifications. Then he writes a lot about dendrochronology. Lots of blogs, etc.

Could anyone actually tell us what his qualifications are and who he is?


    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 228 of 305 (712468)
12-04-2013 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by Coyote
12-04-2013 5:49 AM


Re: Comic relief
Thanks Coyote.

Anyone who tries to show that Dr Bertsche is wrong on carbon dating must either have volumes full of contrary evidence; or be very, very foolish. I think I do know in which one of those categories Dr Pitman MD could be included.

Edited by Pressie, : Spelling


This message is a reply to:
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 231 of 305 (712471)
12-04-2013 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by Pollux
12-04-2013 7:09 AM


Re: Comic relief
To me the concept is ridiculously funny, but it can have tragic results.

At school (in our country that normally goes till you're 18, Grade 12) one of my classmates was raised as an True Christian (PTY LTD) . Known in the US as True Christian (TM). SDA. Not even allowed to drink Coca Cola at home.

After school he went to Uni, got brilliant grades, but the cognitive dissonance got too much for him. He killed himself after 3 years. Gassed himself in his car. Reality contradicted his beliefs. With tragic results for him and his family.

Edited by Pressie, : Changed sentence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by Pollux, posted 12-04-2013 7:09 AM Pollux has responded

Replies to this message:
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 260 of 305 (713018)
12-09-2013 7:18 AM


Diatoms are algae?
This one was strange:

minspawn writes:

Diatoms are algae.

Yes. And? Another rabbit-hole?

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 271 of 305 (713238)
12-11-2013 5:21 AM


This one was very, very humerous to me:

mindspawn writes:

1) Uniqueness of location, most deposition locations on earth should show some annual sedimentation patterns and layering,....

No. Most deposition locations on earth should certainly not show any form of annual sedimentation patterns and layering at all. The Kalahari, The Great Karoo, the Cape Flats; the flats of Kwazulu-Natal; the volcanic deposits around the Great Rift Valley, etc. None of these would show annual sedimentation patterns at all. For a very simple reason; those deposits are not annually deposited.

mindspawn writes:

....instead of using many normal locations, only the most unique of locations are chosen for radiocarbon consilience, and each of the chosen locations have doubtful annual patterns.

Could he even describe to us what a 'normal location' is? Locations vary everywhere. From the ice sheets of Antartica to the deserts of the Sahara. They all are normal.

None of the locations referred to by RAZD have 'doubtful' annual patterns anyway. They are reliable. That's why they are used. And they show a remarkable degree of consilience.


    
Pressie
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Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 272 of 305 (713243)
12-11-2013 7:37 AM


This one was just as funny.

Mindspawn writes:

Yes, in low lying coastal regions the water table is dominated by salt water from the ocean. In spring tides, this would affect all lakes close to the ocean. This would kill freshwater diatoms who die when exposed to salt water. I have presented my evidence in earlier posts. I need your evidence that freshwater diatoms definitely CANNOT be affected by the rising salt water table in a lake next to the sea. I do not see that as a possibility, please tell me how its possible for the deepest freshwater algae during an algae bloom in Lake Suigetsu to survive regular influxes of salt water.

That's tested for. Hope he does know that , for example the different oxygen isotopes found in sea water are way different than those found in fresh water. Those are reflected in the resulting deposits.

Those are tested, mindspawn. Hundreds of thousands of geologists are not as stupid as you (not a geologist) pretend them all to be...

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Admin, : Rerender after clearing censored words list.


Replies to this message:
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2074
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 284 of 305 (713329)
12-12-2013 5:37 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Tanypteryx
12-11-2013 6:33 PM


Re: Too many facts are boring
To me it's amazing. Points Mindspawn keep on repeating continually have been demonstrated to be wrong. Untrue. False. Multiple times. Yet he keeps on repeating them. As if they haven’t been made at all. It's as if his mind is just blocked from even recognising reality.

I'm sure there must be some fancy psychological name for that type of irrational behaviour. It can't be advantageous to the development of the human race.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-11-2013 6:33 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

    
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