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Author Topic:   Why "YEC"/Fundamentalist Creationism is BAD for America
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 16 of 238 (711088)
11-15-2013 1:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
11-10-2013 6:46 PM


Hi RAZD,

RAZD writes:

In this thread I propose to discuss why "creationism" in general, and "Young Earth Creationism (YEC)" in particular are BAD for the US.

I agree that what YEC's teach about creation is false and does not even come close to what the Bible teaches about creation.

But if I remember you and just about every poster on EvC believes in creation.

I believe I am the only one who is on record as stating that the universe has always existed in some form.

Those who believe in the BBT believes in creation as the universe had a beginning to exist thus it requires a creation.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 11-10-2013 6:46 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-15-2013 5:04 PM ICANT has responded
 Message 28 by RAZD, posted 11-15-2013 8:21 PM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 29 of 238 (711213)
11-15-2013 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by RAZD
11-15-2013 8:21 PM


Creation
Hi RAZD,

RAZD writes:

First you say you "... agree that what YEC's teach about creation is false ... " and then you say everyone believes in creation. What "YEC's teach about creation" is what is defined as creationism, other beliefs -- such as deism and people that "believe in the BBT" -- are not.

I did not say everyone believed in creation just most poster on EvC.

Cavediver is the only exception that comes to my mind.

I personally believe and have posted several times that I believe the universe has existed infinitely into the past just not necessarily in the form we see it today. I have found no one that can tell me when 'the beginning' mentioned in Genesis 1:1 occurred.

Has the universe existed infinitely into the past?

If it has not existed infinitely into the past it had to have a beginning to exist which means it had to be created by something.

So do you believe in a created universe some 13 billion years ago or a universe that has existed infinitely into the past?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by RAZD, posted 11-15-2013 8:21 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-15-2013 9:41 PM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 32 of 238 (711219)
11-15-2013 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Dawn Bertot
11-15-2013 5:04 PM


Creation
Hi Dawn,

Dawn Bertot writes:

Perhaps you could elucidate and extrapolate this point. Why does a young earth perspective fall short in teaching what the Bible teaches

The universe and earth are only 6,000 years old. The Bible in no place teaches the earth is only 6,000 years old.

The man formed from the dust of the ground before any life forms of any kind existed and the mankind created male and female at the same time after all other life forms existed are the same man.

I will stop there but if you want to discuss it more start a thread and I will join in the discussion. Just post a heads up to me here or send me an email it is listed in my profile.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Dawn Bertot, posted 11-15-2013 5:04 PM Dawn Bertot has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 33 of 238 (711220)
11-15-2013 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by New Cat's Eye
11-15-2013 9:41 PM


Re: Creation
Hi CS,

CS writes:

false dichotomy

What is the third option?

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-15-2013 9:41 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-19-2013 2:51 PM ICANT has responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6187
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 61 of 238 (711502)
11-19-2013 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by New Cat's Eye
11-19-2013 2:51 PM


Re: Creation
Hi CS,

CS writes:

A gradual emergence with no discernible beginning.

A gradual beginning just means that it had a beginning but just took a long time to complete. Which agrees with what I have presented in the past, as far as the universe and earth that we see today. But I do believe the energy and matter that they were created out of has existed eternally in the past.

CS writes:

Two half-verses, with their own existence, combining to make a whole universe.

But those two verses existed already just not in the form it was after they combined. Would those two verses you are talking about have had a beginning to exist or would they have existed eternally in the past?

My first claim is the universe has existed eternally in some form just not the form we see today. In other words the materials it is made of existed eternally.

CS writes:

Or, you know, something like the Big Bang model where time is a component of the universe, itself, and thus the question of a beginning is meaningless.

Did the universe exist at T=0? No
Did it exist 1 billionth of a second later? Yes
That constitutes a beginning to exist.
So the BBT requires a beginning to exist.

CS writes:

But we've been over this before. You never acknowledge that there's other options and then some time goes by and you just repeat your tired old refuted claim again.

You haven't ever presented another option.

You presented two universes combining into one which is a beginning to exist from previous material which has existed from their beginning or eternally.

You presented the BBT which requires a beginning to exist as the expansion the universe is experiencing now had it always existed it would be dead.

CS writes:

You just can't budge on your position, despite any explanation or evidence, and then you go on holding the position regardless.

Once you have presented evidence I will consider it. If it is true then I will change what I believe.

Until you are some one else presents evidence that the universe has not always existed in some form or had a beginning to exist I will keep that position.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-19-2013 2:51 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-19-2013 4:10 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
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