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Author Topic:   Why "YEC"/Fundamentalist Creationism is BAD for America
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 182 of 238 (853949)
06-03-2019 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Tangle
05-30-2019 8:04 AM


I don't believe in aliens
This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Tangle, posted 05-30-2019 8:04 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by AZPaul3, posted 06-03-2019 2:40 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 184 by ringo, posted 06-03-2019 12:00 PM Dredge has responded

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4136
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 183 of 238 (853952)
06-03-2019 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by Dredge
06-03-2019 1:37 AM


Not the natural kind anyway.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Dredge, posted 06-03-2019 1:37 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16673
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 184 of 238 (853974)
06-03-2019 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Dredge
06-03-2019 1:37 AM


Dredge writes:

I don't believe in aliens


So you lied when you said that aliens were the "best scientific explanation" for... whatever. Something that doesn't exist can not be the "best scientific explanation" for anything.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Dredge, posted 06-03-2019 1:37 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-03-2019 12:45 PM ringo has responded
 Message 195 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2019 10:21 AM ringo has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12441
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 185 of 238 (853975)
06-03-2019 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by ringo
06-03-2019 12:00 PM


Dredge Unplugged
Knowing Dredge, which I, of course, don't... I'm guessing that he believes in One Holy Spirit, Creator of all seen and unseen...but that all of the activity found in historical mythos concerning aliens(beings from another planet) is in actuality spiritual....and of course we Christians believe that spirits=demons=ghosts. Thus, the phenomena if they could be objectively measured originate from a spiritual realm rather than a physical visitor from another planet (such as ET was portrayed as)

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by ringo, posted 06-03-2019 12:00 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by ringo, posted 06-03-2019 12:56 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16673
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 186 of 238 (853976)
06-03-2019 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Thugpreacha
06-03-2019 12:45 PM


Re: Dredge Unplugged
Phat writes:

Thus, the phenomena if they could be objectively measured originate from a spiritual realm....


If Dredge is referring to a "spiritual realm", that is a religious argument, not a scientific one. Don't you keep saying that the "spiritual realm" can not be measured objectively? It is therefore not science and can not be the "best scientific explanation" for anything.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-03-2019 12:45 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-03-2019 1:12 PM ringo has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12441
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 187 of 238 (853978)
06-03-2019 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by ringo
06-03-2019 12:56 PM


Re: Dredge Unplugged
Keep in mind that the best explanations are not always scientific. There are some events that have intuitive unverifiable explanations. Science is not always the best explanation by default conclusion

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by ringo, posted 06-03-2019 12:56 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by ringo, posted 06-03-2019 1:21 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 189 by Tangle, posted 06-03-2019 2:00 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16673
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 188 of 238 (853979)
06-03-2019 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Thugpreacha
06-03-2019 1:12 PM


Re: Dredge Unplugged
Phat writes:

Keep in mind that the best explanations are not always scientific.


I keep in mind that that's your opinion. You're wrong.

But that isn't the issue here. Dredge was talking about the "best scientific explanation", not the "best woo explanation".

Phat writes:

There are some events that have intuitive unverifiable explanations.


If it's unverifiable, it isn't even good, much less best.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-03-2019 1:12 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-03-2019 2:26 PM ringo has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6918
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.2


(2)
Message 189 of 238 (853982)
06-03-2019 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Thugpreacha
06-03-2019 1:12 PM


Re: Dredge Unplugged
If you're going to make a claim like this it absolutely must be followed by, 'for example....'

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-03-2019 1:12 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-03-2019 2:28 PM Tangle has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12441
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 190 of 238 (853985)
06-03-2019 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by ringo
06-03-2019 1:21 PM


Re: Dredge Unplugged
That's where you are wrong. And the sad thing is, once this fact becomes known globally, the entire scientific secular humanist community will be quite literally blown away!! Aghast at the reality that they won't be able to explain.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by ringo, posted 06-03-2019 1:21 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Theodoric, posted 06-03-2019 4:51 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 194 by Taq, posted 06-03-2019 5:59 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 199 by ringo, posted 06-04-2019 11:40 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12441
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 191 of 238 (853986)
06-03-2019 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Tangle
06-03-2019 2:00 PM


Re: Dredge Unplugged
If you're going to make a claim like this it absolutely must be followed by, 'for example....'
You likely will see the evidence before you die. Then again, I don't know. But I do know that all things hidden will one day be revealed.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Tangle, posted 06-03-2019 2:00 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Tangle, posted 06-03-2019 3:02 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6918
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 192 of 238 (853987)
06-03-2019 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Thugpreacha
06-03-2019 2:28 PM


Re: Dredge Unplugged
Phat writes:

You likely will see the evidence before you die.

I guess you have finally lost it. I'm sorry.

Then again, I don't know.

But not knowing doesn't prevent you making totally baseless claims just like all the nutters have done for thousands of years.

But I do know that all things hidden will one day be revealed.
you neither know that nor even know what it means - if anything. Just religious blather.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-03-2019 2:28 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 11:54 AM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 202 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 11:55 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6310
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 193 of 238 (853990)
06-03-2019 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Thugpreacha
06-03-2019 2:26 PM


Re: Dredge Unplugged
Whatever. We have been waiting thousands of years for this "evidence". Woo has never been shown to be a better explanation than science. Trickle down economics is more likely to be proven real.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-03-2019 2:26 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7921
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 194 of 238 (853993)
06-03-2019 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Thugpreacha
06-03-2019 2:26 PM


Re: Dredge Unplugged
That's what every con man says.

In the meantime, we will use the evidence that actually exists.

Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

Edited by AdminPhat, : fixed my own mistake


This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-03-2019 2:26 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-04-2019 11:37 AM Taq has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 195 of 238 (854025)
06-04-2019 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by ringo
06-03-2019 12:00 PM


ringo writes:


So you lied when you said that aliens were the "best scientific explanation" for... whatever. Something that doesn't exist can not be the "best scientific explanation" for anything.


No, no lying. According to science, the existence of aliens is not impossible. A scientific theory, believe it or not, has nothing to do with belief - it is simply an explanation according to the rules and parameters of science. Belief is irrelevant.(Besides, why believe a theory when you know a better theory may well arise to replace it?).

And consider this: I could think of the best scientific explanation for how Jesus walked on water, but I wouldn't believe that explanation because I have a better explanation that is non-scientific.

This is a difficult concept for an atheist to grasp, since to an atheist, science= truth.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by ringo, posted 06-03-2019 12:00 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by Theodoric, posted 06-04-2019 10:27 AM Dredge has responded
 Message 200 by ringo, posted 06-04-2019 11:47 AM Dredge has responded
 Message 206 by Taq, posted 06-04-2019 12:44 PM Dredge has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6310
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 196 of 238 (854028)
06-04-2019 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Dredge
06-04-2019 10:21 AM


Science≠Truth.

Science does not care about truth. Science cares about where the data leads. Data changes therefore science changes with it.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2019 10:21 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Dredge, posted 06-07-2019 2:46 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
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