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Author Topic:   Why the Flood Never Happened
RAZD
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Message 18 of 1896 (713308)
12-11-2013 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Faith
12-11-2013 9:23 PM


Re: Muddy Water
Would certainly be a problem for the fish and other sea creatures which we assume died in huge numbers in the Flood too.

So there should be thousands of fossils of fish and other sea creatures in the Grand Canyon formations ... yes?

Where are they?

Enjoy.


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RAZD
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Posts: 20621
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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(1)
Message 19 of 1896 (713309)
12-11-2013 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Faith
12-11-2013 9:29 PM


Re: Subaerial Erosion And Deposition In The Grand Canyon
Have you read Exploring the Grand Canyon, from the bottom up.?

Haven't seen any creationist attempt that

Enjoy


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 Message 22 by Faith, posted 12-11-2013 11:06 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
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Posts: 20621
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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(1)
Message 23 of 1896 (713316)
12-11-2013 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Faith
12-11-2013 11:06 PM


Re: Subaerial Erosion And Deposition In The Grand Canyon
and I repeat -- have your read it

The thread was the standard establishment interpretation, a lot of tedious Rube Goldberg type explanations.

But maybe I should have asked if you understood it ...

I didn't ask if you posted on it

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : ,,


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RAZD
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(3)
Message 32 of 1896 (713338)
12-12-2013 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Faith
12-12-2013 1:46 AM


Re: Muddy Water
The minutiae are small things that you have observed in the present, you have no idea how a Flood would have affected them, none, you simply extrapolate from the present to your idea of the Flood. That's not an unreasonable way to approach it but it is never going to definitively defeat the Flood, but if I could get the big picture across that WOULD definitively defeat the Old Earth theory.

Curiously, the minutiae are the jigsaw puzzle pieces that fit together into the big picture -- so you can't build a big picture without them, and especially without them in the proper place and orientation.

When you try to build a different picture you have a lot of pieces that don't fit.

Enjoy.


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RAZD
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From: the other end of the sidewalk
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(1)
Message 46 of 1896 (713388)
12-12-2013 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
12-12-2013 4:37 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
Simply because the Old Earthers don't believe the planet was totally inactive for a few billion years. They believe that the activity we see ongoing in the world today has always been going on, the volcanoes, the earthquakes, the tectonic disturbances, the destructive weather patterns. I think, on the other hand, that if any of that happened during the formation of the stack of the Grand Canyon you would not have that nice neat stack a mile deep that is visible in various places in the canyon.

Do you realize that the sediments were laid down before the river cut through them ...

That the land rose as the river cut through them ...

That the land is still rising ... and the measured result today is consistent with the rise in the past ...

That where the canyon cuts through the highest elevation is up a slope and not a low point of the ridge ... where an overflow would have cut through (unless water runs uphill) ...

That there are speleothems in caves up the sides that document the ages ...

That the formations in the canyon are not consistent with flood overflow but slow erosion ...

And so much more


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RAZD
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Posts: 20621
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 49 of 1896 (713391)
12-12-2013 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Faith
12-12-2013 8:10 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
Sorry Faith, I'm not familiar with the geological term "unruffled" -- can you explain it?

I have been to the canyon ... have you?

Enjoy


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 Message 51 by Faith, posted 12-12-2013 8:25 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
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Posts: 20621
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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(1)
Message 52 of 1896 (713394)
12-12-2013 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Faith
12-12-2013 8:25 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
You mean layers were undisturbed ... by what?

... how do YOU explain the appearance of the exposed strata as so nicely unruffled by the buffetings of time during which they would have periodically been at the surface of this very blustery unstable earth? -- such a LONG time? There is clear evidence of volcanic activity in the canyon, ...

I am not aware of any undisturbed strata anywhere ... so I don't follow what you are trying to say.

Some layers are due to sedimentary deposition when they were below sea level, and are disturbed by marine animals and plants, some were eroded by wind when they were exposed, others were tilted by tectonic forces, earthquakes, or volcanic forces (you don't lift a mound of rock up without tilting it around the sides of the mound. There are records of animal tunnels and burrows, plants growing, roots penetrating.

What do you mean Faith?

Enjoy


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This message is a reply to:
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 Message 58 by Faith, posted 12-13-2013 2:08 AM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
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Posts: 20621
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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(2)
Message 76 of 1896 (713461)
12-13-2013 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Faith
12-13-2013 2:08 AM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
I'm talking about long sections of the strata you can see in many views of the canyon from a distance where the horizontality of the layers is all intact, which I claim show the original condition of the layers when they were laid down; the interfaces between the layers are all straight and level, they are all identical as to form, all of this showing they were laid down by the same processes and not over millions of years of varied processes.

There are some layers that appear intact at a great distance, but up close you see disturbances in the tops of the kind I have already mentioned. Some such layers show terrestrial type erosion on their surface layers.

Notice the jagged tops of layers 6,7 and 9 ...

Sedimentary layers are sedimentary layers, Faith, and yes the process of sedimentation is the same for each layer. We see this in ocean sediments and lake sediments, and it is a stunning fact of physics that sedimentation in water environments produces level bottoms, and these layers build up, along with the growth of marine organisms and plants ... the evidence of which you can see when you look close up.

If you are going to claim that these layers were formed suddenly in a matter of days then you need to explain how animal burrows and tunnels and plant roots can form in these layers as they are laid down.

The time it takes for form a layer doesn't depend on great age, but the accumulation of several feet of sediment does and the formation of different types of layers does.

Clay takes days to settle (15"/day), silt a little less, sand less still ... thus large boulders should be at the bottom followed by gravel, sand, silt and clay --- if they are undisturbed layers of deposition.

Shale forms from clay and fine mud. You have a shale layer near the bottom of the (fairly) horizontal top (blue) layers ... in the middle of the Tonto Group, not at the top.

You have several layers of sandstone above the shale and two layers of limestone in between sandstone layers ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limestone

quote:
Like most other sedimentary rocks, most limestone is composed of grains. Most grains in limestone are skeletal fragments of marine organisms such as coral or foraminifera. ...

So you need two distinct complete die offs of the little critters here to make these layers ...

If you mix these layers up -- and you need to because there are sandstones at the top ... and several other locations ... then you don't have an undisturbed deposition process.

When you have the layers sorted into different kinds of layers then you have a problem with sudden deposition in a matter of days.

I'm talking about disturbances that would occur on the surface of the earth where a layer was supposedly exposed over a very long period of time. There would be erosion visible from across the canyon, not erosion you have to get up close to see. ...

But you do see erosion from across the canyon -- what do you think made all those spires? what made all those side canyons that branch off the main canyon at large angles? What do you think is carving the bottom of the canyon now? What do you think cut through a lava flow that built up a dam in the river at one point? What do you think makes so many parts of the canyon walls and spires to be undercut? What do you think makes the grand panorama of spires and bluffs so dramatic?

Can you tell me which of these pictures does not show erosion?

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=grand+canyon&go=&qs=b...

Is this what you mean?

And how do you form that last picture with flood overflow? Just askin

... Tectonic disturbances would not have left a layer or stack of layers like that intact, ...

Why not? There are many different patterns of earthquakes including horizontal shift, which would not disturb the alignment of layers. In fact there ARE some layers that are tilted on angles and then eroded ...

... and any layer that was laid down on top of it would not be neatly flat and straight at the connection with the buckled layer but would conform to its; ...

Conform at the bottom, which every single layer in the grand canyon does, because that is the way slow sedimentary processes work ... and their top surfaces as they build up are level ...

... Animal burrows don't affect the structure of the layers which is what I'm talking about.

But how do you get burrows from animals and insects that burrow into sand and earth ... how do you get those in solid rock that the animals and insects are not capable of burrowing into? How do you explain burrows of land organisms deep into rock laid down and covered during a flood event?

... you would see a layer buckled between other layers all over the canyon, ...

ummm no, it doesn't work that way. If there is side pressure then you get a shift fault, a diagonal line, where one side lifts up along the other ... unless it is deep enough in the earth to melt the stone, at which point the stone changes (it's been baked afterall) to metamorphic rock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamorphic_rock

Personally I think metamorphic rock alone disproves the flood deposition fantasy ...

quote:
Metamorphic rocks arise from the transformation of existing rock types, in a process called metamorphism, which means "change in form". The original rock (protolith) is subjected to heat (temperatures greater than 150 to 200 °C) and pressure (1500 bars),[1] causing profound physical and/or chemical change. The protolith may be sedimentary rock, igneous rock or another older metamorphic rock.

Metamorphic rocks make up a large part of the Earth's crust and are classified by texture and by chemical and mineral assemblage (metamorphic facies). They may be formed simply by being deep beneath the Earth's surface, subjected to high temperatures and the great pressure of the rock layers above it. They can form from tectonic processes such as continental collisions, which cause horizontal pressure, friction and distortion. They are also formed when rock is heated up by the intrusion of hot molten rock called magma from the Earth's interior. The study of metamorphic rocks (now exposed at the Earth's surface following erosion and uplift) provides information about the temperatures and pressures that occur at great depths within the Earth's crust. Some examples of metamorphic rocks are gneiss, slate, marble, schist, and quartzite.


How did we get all that transformed rock type on the surface of the earth if they were deposited by the flood?

... and in fact tectonic upheavals only occurred after all the strata were in place. ...
The disturbances that occurred to the canyon did distort and tilt the layers in the immediate area but AFTER they were all in place ...

Yeah, its kind of hard to throw stuff around when you don't have stuff to throw around ...

... not at different periods in time. ...

So rock was split and filled in with granite and then split and filled in again --- all at the same time? Fascinating.

... I've argued that the uplift of the entire canyon was caused by the volcanic disturbance beneath the canyon, which tilted the lowest strata beneath a mile deep stack of sediments already in place above, causing the wide band of erosion just above the Great Conformity, between it and the horizontal layer above. ...

So this uplift process jumbled the bottom rocks but didn't disturb the upper rocks at all ... like when you have a layer of oil on top of boiling water it keeps the surface from being riled up with no layer of mixed oil and water pockets but a nice clean line ...

... It was no doubt tectonic movement that brought about the underground volcano and contributed to the whole picture here. ...

Other way around -- the rising magma (not volcano) from the earth core caused the uplift that has lifted this whole section while the river continued to cut through it. This is why the land level rises around the river as you go down the canyon.

... . That upheaval uplifted the stack, ...

Indeed, in a gradual process and over a very large area -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_Plateau

quote:
One of the most geologically intriguing features of the Colorado Plateau is its remarkable stability. Relatively little rock deformation such as faulting and folding has affected this high, thick crustal block within the last 600 million years or so. In contrast, provinces that have suffered severe deformation surround the plateau.

Not just the area immediately around the canyon, which is at the south end of the plateau ... uplift over such a large area explains how the layers remain relatively horizontal.

... and you can see the strata in cross sections follow the contour of that uplift, showing they were all already in place. ...

Indeed, it is so hard to move things before they are in place ...

... Some of the stack remained intact, all lifted up at once. ...

It's not a stack of pancakes, Faith it is an area that covers thousands of miles in all directions, the Grand Canyon is only in a part of the uplifted area.

... At the very top, however, the strata would have cracked from the strain of the uplift stretching them over the mound. ...

Except the "mound" was not that local -- it stretched thousands of miles and only lifted 1 mile at the highest point of the canyon ... a very very shallow slope.

... The cracks were then scoured out by inrushing Flood water ...

The flood water rushed uphill? I don't follow ...

... carrying chunks of the uppermost strata (to the height of the current Grand Staircase at least) into the widening gap, eventually carving out the canyon. ...

Where did those rocks end up? The bottom of the canyon empties out onto a plain of sedimentary landscape with a delta of gravel, no big chunks.

Nor are there locations where chunks were lodged along the way, jumbled and tumbled at all angles ...

Not your little river but a huge cataract of water.

And this is what it looks like when you have an actual huge cataract of water breaking through a berm ...

Thousands of miles of wide shallow channels with relatively flat bottoms and no spires, no V shaped channels. This is because the erosion occurs all at once, and scours the sides more than the bottom. The erosion pattern in the Grand Canyon is one that cuts into the bottom, not the sides, the sides are only affected when they become unstable and crack and fall into the bottom or when you have tributaries that flow to the canyon ... also with V shaped canyons.

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : shale clay

Edited by Admin, : Reduce minimum message width by reducing image width.


we are limited in our ability to understand
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Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 12-13-2013 2:08 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Faith, posted 12-13-2013 9:06 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20621
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 84 of 1896 (713493)
12-13-2013 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Faith
12-13-2013 4:24 PM


Re: How did you determine this?
... different sediments are laid one upon another, which defies any slow normal-time explanation, ...

No Faith, it defies rapid deposition. Rapid deposition doesn't give you time for individual layers, just one jumbled mess.

For sorted layers you need a deposition, a pause, another deposition, another pause, etc etc

... the fact that the interface between the totally different sediments most often shows a knife-edge close contact, no blurring between them ...

... is evidence of a total break in the deposition process between the two layers, not a continuum of deposition.

blah blah

enough


we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Faith, posted 12-13-2013 4:24 PM Faith has responded

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 Message 87 by Faith, posted 12-13-2013 5:27 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20621
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 93 of 1896 (713509)
12-13-2013 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Faith
12-13-2013 5:27 PM


tides, waves ≠ current
Moving water creates layers in rapid deposition, ...

So the moving water in your flood runoff filled the Grand Canyon in rapid deposition?

... , and tides and ...

In an open ocean there would be two tides per day for the sun, one just after local noon and one just after local midnight, and you would also have two slightly larger tides for the moon with a 50 minute later per day period compared to the sun.

These tides would be comparable to tides in the middle of the ocean today -- 3 to 4 ft. -- and generally so insignificant that you cannot observe it when in the open ocean.

The height of open ocean tides would also decrease towards each pole and would be zero at the poles.

... long waves that wash across thousands of miles ...

Indeed, with an open ocean the reach for the buildup of waves is virtually infinite, however long waves do not mean high waves ... then length of the wave is determined by the reach, the height by the energy and a 20 ft long wavelength (peak to peak) 3 ft high would not be significantly different from a 200 ft long wavelength 3 ft high or a 2000 ft long wave 3 ft high.

These long open reach waves would be caused by the trade winds and would not keep increasing in size -- once they matched the speed of the winds there would be no further input to make them bigger.

These waves would also decrease in height towards the poles and end up at zero height there (they would cancel themselves out).

... would give a fair amount of time between waves too.

Now you are talking about speed of the waves, which is related to the wavelength ...

BUT the water doesn't flow with the waves, it travels in a circular path with the circles decreasing in size with depth, and when the bottom is shallow compared to the wave height then the wave piles up -- this is what causes breakers at the beach, the waves trip over their stationary bases.

What causes erosion and deposition is the interaction of waves and shore, with rip-tides and transverse currents.

No shore means no rip-tides and no transverse currents ... that's why you get such "horizontal" depositions in ocean bottoms ...

It doesn't take too long to get deep enough off shore for the impact of waves to be negligible.

Even when Hurricanes come inshore they do a lot of damage at the shoreline, but offshore there is little effect.

How do you build Antarctica?

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : No reason given.

Edited by RAZD, : poles


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This message is a reply to:
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 Message 94 by Faith, posted 12-13-2013 8:28 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20621
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(3)
Message 102 of 1896 (713521)
12-13-2013 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Faith
12-13-2013 8:28 PM


Re: tides, waves ‚ current
No, the water laid down all the layers to a few miles in depth and then the canyon cut through them, by the means of a great volume of sediment-laden water that rushed into cracks in the upper strata, the water possibly coming from a large post-Flood standing lake above and to the east of the canyon area, or Flood water that was in the process of receding and was still quite deep.

So when you want rapid deposition you call on rushing water and when you want rapid erosion you call on rushing water ... that is magically different from the rushing water you used to deposit sediment ... got it.

But toward the end of the Flood when the water had receded quite a bit, those tides would have had the effect of sending sediment-laden water farther onto the land mass than the normal waves would.

Nope. If anything they would affect stuff by mixing it up in the same place -- water doesn't flow around the world with the tides or waves Faith, the water goes in circles that decrease in size with depth ... look at the colored dots below:

Top view on the left with a section view on the right.

The red dots on the left would be the yellow dots on the right.

But the height isn't a big part of the picture I'm trying to create here. Think of the Indonesian tsunami that flowed an enormous distance over the land area. That's what I would expect of the waves toward the end of the Flood, ...

Do you realize that the height of a Tsunami wave in the open ocean is only a couple of feet and the reason they get so big is because of interference from shallow bottoms and land -- that's why ships are better off at sea than in harbor.

As your magical flood waters mysteriously disappeared the waves would start to interfere with the bottom and they would 'break' and flatten out, losing energy in turbulent upper water but leaving the bottoms relatively quiescent.

... especially during high tide.

No no no ... you just don't have a clue how this works.

During Hurricane Sandy the storm surge passed through here combined with a spring high tide (sun and moon aligned). The water rose and flowed inland coming to the foundation of my house and then went away. No big waves. No turbulent deposit of sediment. Just calm clear water. I went kayaking on it, launching from my driveway.

Waves go out, waves come in . Tidal waves go way way out and take a long time to come back in. ...

The time is due to the orbits of sun and moon, The height varies due to other factors having to do with interaction with land masses. The basic tide is 3-4 ft in height.

... In the case of the last stages of the Flood the water's edge would still be high on the land, ...

And before that the process of receding to that point would take the energy out of the waves.

... and the land was relatively flat too, ...

So the water would recede just like Hurricane Sandy's high water from my house.

... I do picture a lot of tidal wave sized waves that would suck way out ...

Again, no, that is not how water behaves.

... before returning with new cargo they deposit over thousands of miles of the land area. ...

You do realize don't you, that in your scenario Noah's Ark would have been dashed to pieces on a barren scoured shore and then buried by multiple layers of fast hardening sediment ...

And you do realize don't you, that none of this is mentioned in Genesis.

... Before there wree high mountains.

Which would show erosion and scouring if what you fantasize were real ... sadly, for you, they don't.

In the case of the Flood we're talking interaction between deep water with currents and layers interacting with entire land mass, and then waves as the water recedes interacting with land mass.

Where do the currents come from Faith? Magic? There are currents, but not because of waves.

Again, I'm not talking about waves during the deep water part of the Flood although I realize I wasn't being specific enough. I do have in mind the period when the water was receding. I suspect I've been clearer in former discussions along these lines.

When the bible says the waters were calm?

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20621
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 104 of 1896 (713524)
12-13-2013 11:36 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Faith
12-13-2013 9:06 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
That's why I required it to be at a distance ...

And if you go to the moon the earth looks like a smooth ball.

... , because the kinds of disturbances that would have occurred during very long exposure at the surface of the earth would be visible from a great distance. ...

Some are some aren't -- sometimes the "disturbance" is horizontal.

You can see some in the Grand Canyon.

... But they aren't and even up close there is no sign of any kind of disturbance on many layers. ...

Probably they had little to disturb them. Some disturbances only occur in specific places, like earthquakes along fault lines. No fault lines no earthquake disturbances.

... You have to get up close to see any of the erosion you are talking about, even the erosion in the particular layers you have identified in that diagram.

No those can be see from a distance.

But getting up close does show you that erosion has occurred, just not the kind you predict ... and the failure of your prediction is due to your hypothesis being wrong, not to how the earth actually behaves. A scientist throws out the hypothesis when this happens, you throw out the evidence.

At least at the Great Unconformity the band of erosion can be explained as caused by abrasion between the upper and lower levels, which I like to explain as due to the tilting of the Supergroup strata by the volcanic action beneath. The strata would have violently tilted against the upper strata which remained intact due to the tremendous weight of the strata above, and the tilting and sliding would have abraded both levels, and the evidence is that the eroded band is composed of material from both levels. This got discussed in far more detail on other threads.

But this doesn't explain the top of the Tonto Formation (layer 9) or layer 6 ... or the complete lack of debris from all that grinding ...

I'm not happy with other creationist explanations which explain the eroded band as a slurry which eroded the Supergroup, I like my own better. Paul K and I had an argument about how a particular boulder of quartzite got into the eroded band because quartzite takes a long time to form. Clearly it came from the layer called the Shinumo in the Supergroup, but the question I had then was how that particular layer got metamorphosed into quartzite but the other layers in the same group are just sedimentary rock. I don't know but it's clearly a hunk of that particular quartzite that was abraded and got buried in the eroded band, by the shifting of the rocks brought about by the force of the underground volcano, according to my favorite theory.

I'm too tired to continue. Later.

Yes, it is tiring to make up complete nonsense.

btw ... is there anyone you don't disagree with?

Enjoy


Edited by RAZD, : ..


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Faith, posted 12-13-2013 9:06 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20621
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 112 of 1896 (713542)
12-14-2013 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Faith
12-14-2013 3:14 AM


Re: carry on
Happy holidaze Faith,

and when you abuse a pine tree remember ... there is a continuous unbroken validated tree ring chronology made from trees that lived from the present to the deep past -- 10,460 BCE and that the more ancient members of this proud lineage are German pines.

Remember that the holiday you will be celebrating is Winter Solstice ... it has nothing to do with Christianity, but everything to do with the orbit of the earth around the sun.

This is a time that cultures around the world recognize as significant, the shortest day of the year, and it was celebrated long before christianity tried to take it over.

Remember that Christians have been waging war on Winter Solstice by trying to convince people that it has something to do with Christ. It doesn't.

Remember that when you exchange gifts that this is a German pagan tradition, not a christian one.

Hanging up a stocking? also a German pagan tradition.

And, when you come back remember all these unanswered posts here. They are a gift to you to learn from.

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : ..


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Faith, posted 12-14-2013 3:14 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20621
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 113 of 1896 (713543)
12-14-2013 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Faith
12-13-2013 8:01 PM


footprints ...
The long waves at least allow a period of time in which footprints could have been registered in the wet sediment. Some are said to be dinosaur footprints but they look rather similar to bird feet. Birds could of course fly between waves.

ROFLOL. Contradicting the bible again ... bad bad Faith

So they are all running for their lives to get away from the next wave ... which is why the footprints are all orientated in the same direction right? What direction is that Faith?

really

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Faith, posted 12-13-2013 8:01 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20621
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(3)
Message 126 of 1896 (713579)
12-14-2013 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Atheos canadensis
12-14-2013 3:20 PM


Re: Why is the Old Earth interpretation impossible?
You say "right now", but you clearly mean "ever". "Right now" implies you mean to deal with them at some point ...

This is how Cognitive Dissonance works: it becomes stressful to deal with contradictory information, so you devise ways to avoid it and pretend it isn't important, so you tell yourself stories ... "I can deal with it, just not right now, I'll come back to it later, yeah that's it, I'll do it later ..." and when later comes you start all over with the pretense that you KNOW the answer ...

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Atheos canadensis, posted 12-14-2013 3:20 PM Atheos canadensis has acknowledged this reply

  
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