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Author Topic:   Is there a legitimate argument for design?
1.61803
Member (Idle past 818 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 76 of 638 (720263)
02-21-2014 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by dadman
02-21-2014 9:09 AM


Re: cheepers creepers
dadman writes:

the third element has nothing to do with matter or energy . . . good try though ... cheers

How do you know?

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by dadman, posted 02-21-2014 9:09 AM dadman has replied

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 818 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 316 of 638 (725696)
04-30-2014 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 315 by Omnivorous
04-30-2014 2:00 PM


Hi Omnivorous,

Crows have also been observed casting hard nuts onto the busy road to have cars smash them. Then they fly down and eat them.

Using us humans as a makeshift nutcracker.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by Omnivorous, posted 04-30-2014 2:00 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 318 by Omnivorous, posted 04-30-2014 7:07 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 818 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(2)
Message 321 of 638 (725745)
05-01-2014 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 318 by Omnivorous
04-30-2014 7:07 PM


Avian intelligence continually amazes me. Here is a photo of my two family members. (Both bred in captivity)

Your story of Manitou is wonderful.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 318 by Omnivorous, posted 04-30-2014 7:07 PM Omnivorous has seen this message but not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 818 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 544 of 638 (737125)
09-17-2014 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by NoNukes
09-17-2014 1:57 PM


Re: The Tao
Hello NoNukes,
NoNukes writes:

Perhaps there is no answer other than that is how time/space/matter/energy work.

I hate that saying, "it is what it is." That has become so popular in discussions.

I am reminded of my young daughter who always seems to have a "but why" at the end of every answer.

Inevitably I have to say, " I don't know." It is what it is.
But what a boring world we would live in if we knew everything.

The discovery of the Higgs was one of the most amazing achievments but it seems to have only opened the door to more questions, more but why? Why is the Higgs in the middle between a universe that may someday be explained or to one that is arbitrary. The mystery continues, the final answer postponed yet again.
We can choose to believe there is a reson de entre' or we can simply say it is what it is.
I tend to flip back and forth depending on my mood that day.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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1.61803
Member (Idle past 818 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 546 of 638 (737128)
09-17-2014 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 545 by Tangle
09-17-2014 4:14 PM


Re: The Tao
Tangle writes:

Or we just say that we don't know. Yet.


But wHy???

Ok that is a third option. One that seems to be in line with "it is what it is." It is what is because we don't know yet what it is or why it is.

The natural laws of the universe operate in the way they do and exist the way they do because we do not know yet.

Edited by 1.61803, : redundant


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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 Message 545 by Tangle, posted 09-17-2014 4:14 PM Tangle has not replied

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 Message 551 by NoNukes, posted 09-17-2014 5:12 PM 1.61803 has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 818 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 548 of 638 (737131)
09-17-2014 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 547 by taiji2
09-17-2014 4:26 PM


Re: The Tao
Hello Taiji2,
Taiji2 writes:

Well yes one can infer that. Millions and billions of people have and have (do) make that inference. That is a large population of observers gathering evidence.

This is a appeal to popularity argument.

The rub seems to be around pinning down what is design and what is evidence for design.

Lets do that. How would you define design as and what evidence would you present.
Unless you are using your atom is complex therefore is designed
argument. Because it was refuted by NoNukes stating the atom is not complex. So you could perhaps come up with a complex system that could not possibly be non designed. Like the Rhodopsin cycle of the human eye, or the Kreb cycle.
Which NoNukes refuted that complexity is also not a adequate evidence of design.
So how about Goddidit? This requires no evidence. Just faith and belief. But that is for another forum other than Science que no?

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

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 Message 547 by taiji2, posted 09-17-2014 4:26 PM taiji2 has not replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 818 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 550 of 638 (737135)
09-17-2014 5:10 PM


My argument for design :
There is no underlying truth or reality, it is what it is. The Universe and humanity exist in the software of a alien super intelligent artificial sentient lifeform for the soul purpose of entertainment. It is a highly complex programming masterpiece.
The game is self running and models the cosmos completely.
It can not be predicted or understood because the operating parameters have been left out by the designers. The game resets after all available energy reaches maximum entropy.
Many of the underlying mechanisms of how the game manifest reality seem to point to various themes and overtime seem to merge into one unique principal of operation. But several key bits of information simply do not exist in this game and therefore it is unsolvable.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 818 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 554 of 638 (737140)
09-17-2014 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 551 by NoNukes
09-17-2014 5:12 PM


Re: The Tao
NoNukes writes:

Perhaps this notion that the laws of science 'operate' is simply flawed.

Perhaps, but I tend to look at things from a human point of view. Being that I am human.
NoNukes writes:


Which laws do you think it makes sense to think of in this way?

In terms of operation? Then does that not imply a operator? (kidding) Not sure what you mean, I'll guess you mean that I am guilty of perhaps thinking of "natural laws" as "things" when they are simply the way physics happens and physics is the lingusitic description/representation of those phenomenon. Regardless the constants and laws that have been discovered do not need to make any sense at all. Humans are the ones that tend to look for symmetry, patterns and significance. At least I do. The universe could care less.

Edited by 1.61803, : spelling.


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 551 by NoNukes, posted 09-17-2014 5:12 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
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