EvC Forum: Is there a legitimate argument for design?

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Topic: Is there a legitimate argument for design?

herebedragons

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Posts: 1517

From: Michigan

Joined: 11-22-2009

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Message 108 of 638 (720365)
02-22-2014 9:06 AM

Reply to: Message 86 by dadman
02-21-2014 2:04 PM

Re: okay: I'll give you all a hint

I just laid a book on the table ... it's 5 inches thick ... can someone name for me all the elements involved in all books in general .. here, let me start by claiming: paper (matter) / ink (matter) .. if you burn a book you might get some (energy) .. what else is involved ... maby glue (matter) ... what else (not related to matter or energy) .........

Man ... what ... is ... up ... with ... the ... ellipses ... ? and I thought I overused them

So a book has matter, energy - potential (at rest), kinetic (if falling) and chemical (burning) - and information; all three elements required for life. Why is it not alive? Is there a fourth element that maybe you forgot to mention? Magic maybe?

HBD

Edited by herebedragons, : spelling error

Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

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	Message 86 by dadman, posted 02-21-2014 2:04 PM		dadman has not replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 110 by RAZD, posted 02-22-2014 11:35 AM		herebedragons has replied

herebedragons

Member (Idle past 1150 days)

Posts: 1517

From: Michigan

Joined: 11-22-2009

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Message 109 of 638 (720366)
02-22-2014 9:24 AM

Reply to: Message 83 by Stile
02-21-2014 12:10 PM

Re: science and life

Almost everywhere agrees that these are "Oxygen, Hydrogen and Carbon."

What about nitrogen and phosphorus? They get no respect as "elements of life."

Which seems to maybe, kinda indicate that the 3 elements of life are mass, energy and "the Breath of God."

I have thought about this kind of thing before. I mean why can we not just put all the components of a cell into a test tube, add a bit of ATP, a little heat and generate life? There IS something missing from that formula. Why is it that life only comes from other life? There is something that is being passed on - life. Not that dadmom has a clue; and I don't want to get into a "what is information" b.s. discussion.

Oh, and he ruined ellipses for me, now I feel stupid using them

HBD

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 83 by Stile, posted 02-21-2014 12:10 PM		Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 118 by Stile, posted 02-24-2014 9:28 AM		herebedragons has not replied

herebedragons

Member (Idle past 1150 days)

Posts: 1517

From: Michigan

Joined: 11-22-2009

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Message 111 of 638 (720379)
02-22-2014 12:11 PM

Reply to: Message 110 by RAZD
02-22-2014 11:35 AM

Re: non-science non-sense

life is something that is capable of evolution -- changes in the composition of hereditary traits, and changes to the frequency of their distributions within breeding populations from generation to generation, in response to ecological challenges and opportunities

Maybe change "breeding" to "reproducing" otherwise it would exclude non-sexual populations. But other than that I think that definition fits rather well.

and this approach raises interesting questions in defining when life occurs

This definition could only apply on a population basis, since a organism could be born sterile and incapable of reproduction, and therefore, as an individual, not part of the breeding or reproducing population but still be considered alive.

and what we view as life.

Yea, defining life is kind of like defining species; we intuitively know what it means but to create a one-size-fits-all definition is rather elusive.

Do you consider viruses to be alive?

HBD

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.

This message is a reply to:
	Message 110 by RAZD, posted 02-22-2014 11:35 AM		RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 112 by RAZD, posted 02-22-2014 12:42 PM	herebedragons has not replied
	Message 119 by Stile, posted 02-24-2014 9:45 AM	herebedragons has not replied

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