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Author Topic:   Is there a legitimate argument for design?
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 68 of 638 (720248)
02-21-2014 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by dadman
02-20-2014 11:38 PM


Re: science is your friend
well it does seem to me that the 3rd element is indeed your greatest fear

So there you have it the third element, all the atheists are running away in fear and committing suicide, there is chaos everywhere, prison populations have dropped by 0,80 % because of the atheist suicides....

Why should we be afraid of lithium?

Symbol: Li
Category: Alkali metal
Atomic number: 3
Atomic weight: 6.941
State: solid
Melting Point: 453.69 K (180.54˚C)
Boiling Point: 1615 K (1342˚C)
Heat of fusion: 3.00 kJ mol-1
Molar heat capacity: 24.860 kJ mol-1
Heat of vaporization: 147.1 kJ mol-1
Oxidation states: +1,-1 (strongly basic oxide)
Van der waals radius: 182 pm
Covalent radius: 128±7 pm
Electronegativity: 0.98 Pauling Scale
Atomic radius: 152 pm

Whats scary about that?

Or are you talking about the laughable idea of the 5 elements from the dark ages.

Fire is not an element its a chemical reaction that releases heat.

Earth is not an element its made up of molecules and some elements from the periodic table

Water is not an element its a molecule containing an element of oxygen and 2 elements of hydrogen

Metal's can be an element's tough most metals nowadays are compounds

wood is also not an element its made of cellulose an organic compound

Edited by frako, : No reason given.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by dadman, posted 02-20-2014 11:38 PM dadman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by dadman, posted 02-21-2014 9:09 AM frako has taken no action

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 71 of 638 (720253)
02-21-2014 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by dadman
02-19-2014 11:02 PM


Re: For the last time
you have to display the three elements of life .. matter / energy and ... xxx

Um there is no third element of life. Life in its basic form is a replicating molecule. For that you need matter as in the molecule, and energy thats it.

Ok sure you need space but that's a given.

Are you claiming you need something more to let a molecule replicate itself like magic, well sorry you dont need magic.

Now you might think but we are not a molecule we are made up billions of molecules. Exactly molecules not magic, all following the laws of chemistry in our universe not magic.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by dadman, posted 02-19-2014 11:02 PM dadman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by dadman, posted 02-21-2014 9:27 AM frako has replied

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 74 of 638 (720261)
02-21-2014 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by dadman
02-21-2014 9:27 AM


Re: Oh brother
and these folks call themselves scientists ....... lol

.............. replicating

Yea your saying that dna does not replicate damn all of our science is wrong!!! Lets pick up the bible and burn all other books right now!!!

Either your a troll or you have the education of a fire hydrant.

a bit of education for you.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by dadman, posted 02-21-2014 9:27 AM dadman has taken no action

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 78 of 638 (720268)
02-21-2014 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by dadman
02-21-2014 9:49 AM


Re: cheepers creepers
well . . . as soon as I can get past the scoffers and mockers ... I "might" continue . . . it would make no sense to attempt to travel from point B to C .. until you first have traveled from point A to B ........ cheers

O please grate one do continue tell us what this mystical third element is, so we may start burning our science books.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by dadman, posted 02-21-2014 9:49 AM dadman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by dadman, posted 02-21-2014 10:03 AM frako has replied

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 80 of 638 (720272)
02-21-2014 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by dadman
02-21-2014 10:03 AM


Re: pearls and swine
I don't waste time with those of puffed chests / grit teeth and clenched fists

No puffed chest here, no teeth gritting, and no clenched fist.

I am being a bit condescending though because there is no "third element". To me your sounding like besides heat and a bowl of water you need something else to get the water boiling, and im not telling you what it is.

Life in its basic form is a self replicating molecule, it evolves (changes) because the replication process is imperfect, mistakes are made, now if a mistake prevents the molecule from replicating there are no more molecules of that type, if a mistake makes it easier for the molecule to replicate there are more molecules of that type. Runn that processes for a few billion years with changing pressures (conditions of the environment, making it harder, easier for it to replicate) and you get complex life.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by dadman, posted 02-21-2014 10:03 AM dadman has taken no action

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 104 of 638 (720341)
02-21-2014 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by dadman
02-21-2014 2:42 PM


Re: very good stile .... you are correct
information is the correct answer

Um so you think DNA basicly has a code that say make the nose this wide, the hair this collor, lungs this big the hart so strong ....

Its just chemical reactions gene X produces protein y that reacts with compound z. Thats the "information" in DNA

Claiming anything else is claiming oxygen has the information on how to make iron rust, and things burn. Co has the information on how to bind to haemoglobin more strongly then oxygen.

In the same way no gene has the information to make a protein it just makes them because those kind of chemical reactions happen do to the laws of chemistry. We are the ones that assign information to DNA for simplicity sake we say gene xyz increases the likelihood of cancer or whatever.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by dadman, posted 02-21-2014 2:42 PM dadman has taken no action

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 156 of 638 (724809)
04-21-2014 6:52 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Ed67
04-20-2014 1:02 PM


Re: DNA evolves
I'm debunking the idea that you introduced, that of DNA as a blueprint.

So get on with it. So far you have only made assertions.

A blueprint = a design plan or other technical drawing.

DNa is definitively not that

At best it would be an a punch-card-automaton, that produces proteins.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Ed67, posted 04-20-2014 1:02 PM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by RAZD, posted 04-21-2014 8:09 AM frako has taken no action
 Message 167 by Ed67, posted 04-23-2014 8:47 AM frako has replied

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 168 of 638 (724963)
04-23-2014 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by Ed67
04-23-2014 8:47 AM


first use peek mode to copy quotes that you want to quote it looks nicer

Well its not a blueprint and it is more of an automaton or lets say nano-bot

A blueprint would mean that it is a design plan its not i dont see any paper and in in dna do you? Its not even coded instructions because it would not make any sense if it is a coded instruction who is reading it? Are you implying a cell has the capacity to read the instruction then decide what to do?

DNA is a molecule and it behaves in accordance to the laws of chemistry.

Sure it is a verry complex molecule you could even call it a nano-bot (ie molecular machine). but thats it

Proteins are made by stuff around the DNA chemically reacting with the DNA molecule.

There are no little gremlins looking at the DNA molecule saying aha this part here says the nose should be this shape lets go to work.

Its like when oxygen meets iron to produce rust, they dont go well my information says we should bind ourselves together to make rust and then they do it. It just happens because of chemical reactions do to their properties iron being "wanting" to give a way electrons and oxygen "wanting" them so they form rust.

Its the same for DNA all chemical reactions just a bit more complicated.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by Ed67, posted 04-23-2014 8:47 AM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Ed67, posted 04-23-2014 10:30 AM frako has replied

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 184 of 638 (725024)
04-23-2014 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Ed67
04-23-2014 10:30 AM


Re: Is There a Legitimate Argument for Design?
Like any recipe, this one had to have an intelligent source, as it was 'written' some time BEFORE life started. Evolution could not have an effect until life began as a whole phenomenon.

Yea we know evolution coulden't have an effect before life started. And this recepie did not need an intelligent source all it needed was a simple replicating molecule or should we call that molecule alive. It dint need to be as large as ours, a membrane, and all the neat little dohickeys cells now have all it needed to do was replicate imperfectly. 3 billion years later woalla human beings working it all out.

Now i know you could say well it dint need an intelegent creator but there could have been one, well yes for all we know an ailen spaceship dumped its sewage on this planet as it was passing by. And life on the planet evolved from that. We just dont know how life started we only know how it got to the stage its at now from simple beginnings.

That's exactly true. You are getting to the point. Now the next question:
How did the DNA/RNA NANOBOT come to be 'constructed' so that it could CONTAIN, TRANSMIT AND INTERPRET the instructions to make functional proteins necessary for an organism to live?

This is how it could have happened. This first self replicating molecule just interacts with the stuff arround it and copies itself inperfectly mistakes are made and one day one mistake makes the molecule attract lipids to itself, Lipids have a natural tendency to clump together to form spherical structures. If the molecule attracted them it would be protected from harmfull solar radiation, taking a longer time for it to decay under solar radiation, allowing it to make more copies of itself. Is the molecule now alive because it has a membrane?

But no we cant prove this is how life started on earth and we probably never will unless someone invents a TARDIS. but we do not need to invoke gods evil spierits, and or daemons to come to a possible answer because there are more realistic answers to be explored first.

P.s.
What instructions as i said it needs no instructions it just follows the laws of chemestry?

And RNA needs no proteins to replicate itself.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Ed67, posted 04-23-2014 10:30 AM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Ed67, posted 04-23-2014 1:55 PM frako has replied

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(4)
Message 192 of 638 (725051)
04-23-2014 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Ed67
04-23-2014 1:55 PM


Re: Is There a Legitimate Argument for Design?
You claim that life didn't need an intelligent source to explain its existence. 'all it needs', you seem to be saying, 'is a PRE-EXISTING simple form of LIFE' to evolve from.

So a strand of simple pre-RNA molecule is alive then cool, then by those standards so are salt crystals, there you go the origins of life answered.

Yea the answer to how life arose requires a definition of what life is. To me it has to furfill one property self replication with modification. Im one of those that categorises viruses as alive even though its only a strand of RNA

But yea i also told you we dont know how life arose evolution takes of once you have a self replicating molecule.

We know how most components of such a molecule could have arisen in the earth environment at that time, but not yet how they combined to form a self replicating molecule. but that is not what evolution deals with, evolution deals with what happens after you get that molecule. Sure you could push god in to that gap god made the first verry simple self replicating molecule, o praise the lord what a miracle we have been doing it for 60 years. http://www.genscript.com/RNA_Oligo.html go order some for yourself.

Darwinian wishful thinking (based on faith) at its best

Yea sure faith, its faith that tells us that the early erths atmosphere was made up of ater vapor, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, hydrogen, nitrogen, ammonia, and methane, not diligent sicence.

Its also faith that tells us that add lightning to this soup and you get simple amino acids, it wasnt experiments and testing and diligent work its faith.

now we know here is a gap in our knowlege ie you say god did it in how those aminoacids formed the first selfreplicating molecule.

But then there is no gap any more, the fossil record clearly shows how life evolved from simple life to complex life.

We should all just quit right now burn all books and works cause god did it is the simplest and best answer. Cause you know its completely logical god was there in the abstract time before time ie before the big bang, made it bang, then he waited 10 billion years for the earth to form, placed a self replicating molecule on it, waited 3,5 billion years, then send his son to appear in ancient Jerusalem, when the top form of storing knowledge was on scraps of paper, he took 12 fishermen who dint know how to write, as his students then he died for humanity's sins knowing that some 60 years later someone is bound to record his story on paper, and some 300 years later a few dozen people will gather all the writings and sort them out to form the bible. Praise the lord.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Ed67, posted 04-23-2014 1:55 PM Ed67 has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by RAZD, posted 04-23-2014 6:27 PM frako has taken no action

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 200 of 638 (725071)
04-24-2014 4:56 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Ed67
04-23-2014 7:44 PM


RE: Is there a legitimate argument for design?
good one. Any high school student can tell you that - in the base pair arrangement, of course.

No, seriously, you knew that, right?

Can you give us a short explanation of how you think DNA works.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Ed67, posted 04-23-2014 7:44 PM Ed67 has taken no action

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 209 of 638 (725119)
04-24-2014 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by Ed67
04-24-2014 9:44 AM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
A segment of ATCG specifies the details of a cell-building program, just as a segment of computer code specifies the details of a computer program. Some of it specifies the construction of all proteins for each cell, and most of it specifies all the other details needed to build the entire organism, though scientists haven't been able to 'decode' most of it yet.

You got it partially right id doesn't specify anything it just does it, when it comes in to contact with the right stuff that is floating around. Because of the laws of chemistry.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 9:44 AM Ed67 has taken no action

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 219 of 638 (725197)
04-24-2014 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Ed67
04-24-2014 3:39 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
wohooo Defining the Genetic Coding Problem, 1954-1957 its been 60 years we made some progress in that time.

Its not a code its just chemical reactions, its like saying magnesium and h2o contain a code to produce magnesium hydroxide and hydrogen gas

p.s.

How do you think this genetic code of yours works? explain in as much detail as you can.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 3:39 PM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 6:22 PM frako has replied

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(2)
Message 221 of 638 (725217)
04-24-2014 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Ed67
04-24-2014 6:22 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
Yea a code, im gonna go and use the h2o code do stave off dehydration.

Ok mr professor how do you think your code works i asked you 3 times now. Please provide a detailed explenation of how you think this code works to make proteins. Who reads the code, who then decides to act on the information provided by that code??

No one is the anwser cause there is no sentient being there to read the code. to make a protein A polymerase binds to the dna and splits it apart because thats the chemical reaction you get when those 2 things interact. It then syntesises a mRNA from the chemichal reactions that take place. Than mRNA strand leaves the nucleus and reacts with a ribosome. The protein is then built by chemical reactions oncly certein molecules can react with the part of mRNA that is reacting with the ribosome when they do the ribosome moves up 3 spaces and only certrtein molecules can react with that part of the mRNA molecule slowly building up the protein when the end is reached a water molecule is added the protein brakes free, and the rest falls apart.

Where do you see the code?

at best you can call DNA a template, but there is no information code its just chemical reactions.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 6:22 PM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 7:29 PM frako has replied

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 230 of 638 (725251)
04-25-2014 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by Ed67
04-24-2014 7:29 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
The same place Watson and Crick saw it, silly. This is getting really pathetic, dude. You can't even understand the basic function of DNA.

making proteins

to make a protein A polymerase binds to the dna and splits it apart because thats the chemical reaction you get when those 2 things interact. It then syntesises a mRNA from the chemichal reactions that take place. Than mRNA strand leaves the nucleus and reacts with a ribosome. The protein is then built by chemical reactions oncly certein molecules can react with the part of mRNA that is reacting with the ribosome when they do the ribosome moves up 3 spaces and only certrtein molecules can react with that part of the mRNA molecule slowly building up the protein when the end is reached a water molecule is added the protein brakes free, and the rest falls apart.

where is the code? What does it do and how does it work?


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 7:29 PM Ed67 has taken no action

  
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