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Author
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Topic: Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham
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saab93f
Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 265 From: Finland Joined: 12-17-2009
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Message 278 of 824 (719073)
02-11-2014 6:57 AM
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Reply to: Message 271 by Faith
02-11-2014 1:44 AM
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Then you aren't looking at the places I'm describing where it DOES go that fast: wherever you have a small daughter population breaking off the parent population and becoming reproductively isolated. That's the test case. And it seems to me that would be the most common situation that would occur after the Flood as the animals dispersed, all kinds of splits in population going off in different directions. Yes there are plenty of other situations where it doesn't happen so fast, such as where you have extremely large stable herds for instance, but this is how I'm sure it must have happened right off the ark, which is the context here after all.
Hi Faith. Has evolution reached its peak in your opinion? I mean are the lions or cheetahs we see today final versions or should we ecpect to see uber-lions or cheetahs that can run at 70 mph for miles and miles? Citing historical records (pics and writings) we can quite safely say that lions in their present form have existed for millenia. Did the baramin run out of variation only after so little time?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 271 by Faith, posted 02-11-2014 1:44 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 285 by Faith, posted 02-11-2014 11:44 AM | | saab93f has replied |
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saab93f
Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 265 From: Finland Joined: 12-17-2009
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Message 289 of 824 (719105)
02-11-2014 12:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 285 by Faith
02-11-2014 11:44 AM
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As I said lions apparently still have genetic variability. Why did the variation end after some hundred of years then? I mean after the disembarkation there was only very little time before peeps started drawing and writing about them mighty lions. Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 285 by Faith, posted 02-11-2014 11:44 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 291 by Faith, posted 02-11-2014 12:55 PM | | saab93f has replied |
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saab93f
Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 265 From: Finland Joined: 12-17-2009
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Message 355 of 824 (719203)
02-12-2014 4:37 AM
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Reply to: Message 291 by Faith
02-11-2014 12:55 PM
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I don't know. Apparently a variation/breed/race can be quite stable without drastic homozygosity. If one was to assume that the Ark held the genetically superiour animals then why do we not have them among our midst anymore? Where did they vanish? Is it not so that YECs claim that speciation is only genetic variation based on degeneration ie. that all modern animals (humans included) are weaker than the "original" ones? That being the reason why Noah lived 900 years and roughly 12 or 22 men were able to build cities...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 291 by Faith, posted 02-11-2014 12:55 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 389 by Faith, posted 02-13-2014 1:58 PM | | saab93f has not replied |
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saab93f
Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 265 From: Finland Joined: 12-17-2009
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Message 457 of 824 (719560)
02-15-2014 5:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 456 by Faith
02-15-2014 4:50 AM
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Re: genetics
In any case the occasional fluke of a beneficial mutation is no proof that mutations are normally beneficial at all. Moving goalposts, ha? Have you ever thought whether you actually might be doing a disservice to your co-religiosistas with your complete and utter lack of a) honesty and b) ability to accept that scientists are doing their work well and without preconceived motives? If faith is so weak that it can only survive on distortion, lying and general doshonesty, what does it tell about that faith?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 456 by Faith, posted 02-15-2014 4:50 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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saab93f
Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 265 From: Finland Joined: 12-17-2009
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Re: genetics
I am actually a Christian and Bible believer but I also see the reality of scientific fact. Though in the past I have had my ups and downs spiritually so to speak (I was once was more of a deist/agnostic). Faith, however is a small subsector of religious people who believe that science and their Christian faith cannot co-exist. I am one of many who does not believe that. Had to check that I wasn't replying to you :-) Have you thought however what makes some people (names withheld) want to discard reality in favour of preserving mythology? You said that it is only a minority that denies science but isn't it actually so that 40 percent of Americans believe that everything was created in 6 literal days according to Gilgamesh...Genesis? If that is not scary, I do not know what is.
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saab93f
Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 265 From: Finland Joined: 12-17-2009
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Re: genetics
Hi DA. Thanks for digging things up - my main point however was to wonder how 40 percent of Americans have such a strong conviction in any mythology. In my country's epic the creation story is such that the world was born out of a bird's egg (bluebill or scaup to be exact). How do people reconcile the reality and their faith when the difference is gigantic? Another point I'd like to understand is how these peeps reconcile their self-assumed moral superiority ( as the people of the Good Book) and their compulsory need to lie deceit and distort to support their resident mythology.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 470 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-15-2014 5:29 PM | | saab93f has seen this message but not replied |
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saab93f
Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 265 From: Finland Joined: 12-17-2009
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Message 528 of 824 (719671)
02-16-2014 5:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 477 by NoNukes
02-15-2014 7:14 PM
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Re: genetics
Forty six percent Americans believed in creationism, 32 percent believed in theistic evolution and 15 percent believed in evolution without any divine intervention. I'd argue that only the 32 per cent are actually science deniers. Sorry, should've checked the numbers but I thought that a ballpark figure was enough to support my point. I'd argue that there is nothing ONLY in 32 percent. That is horrible in fact because it means that 100 mio Americans are seriously deluded.IMO they are "saved" from physiartic treatment mainly because of the popularity of their particular delusion.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 477 by NoNukes, posted 02-15-2014 7:14 PM | | NoNukes has not replied |
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saab93f
Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 265 From: Finland Joined: 12-17-2009
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But it's okay because he is an honest godly man, right? It is nothing short of amazing how the religion of love (tm) can produce hoards of hateful and inhumane preachers...
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saab93f
Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 265 From: Finland Joined: 12-17-2009
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Message 561 of 824 (719733)
02-17-2014 8:25 AM
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Reply to: Message 552 by Faith
02-17-2014 2:26 AM
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Re: Trashing Darwin?
The point was that the PARAGRAPH presents the THEORY in that light. Everything I've said is based on how I read what that paragraph says. It suggests to me that that was DARWIN's view of the theory at that time.
There was nothing honest in your "point". You had an agenda and tried to bolster it by inserting something most would find objectionable to where there is none. ala "Have you stopped beating your husband?"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 552 by Faith, posted 02-17-2014 2:26 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 562 by Faith, posted 02-17-2014 3:09 PM | | saab93f has seen this message but not replied |
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saab93f
Member (Idle past 1422 days) Posts: 265 From: Finland Joined: 12-17-2009
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Message 575 of 824 (721077)
03-03-2014 12:48 PM
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Reply to: Message 574 by JonF
03-03-2014 12:36 PM
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Re: Bill Nye Debate Sparked Funding 'Miracle'
No matter what the situation, Ken Ham is totally unable to tell the truth. It is sad above all that some follow that fraudster without question.
To be a creationist, aversion to truthfulness is paramount but some (like basicly everyone at AiG) take that to the extremes.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 574 by JonF, posted 03-03-2014 12:36 PM | | JonF has not replied |
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