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Author Topic:   Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham
JonF
Member (Idle past 188 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 646 of 824 (749541)
02-05-2015 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 639 by Faith
02-05-2015 3:25 PM


Yep, he made a business decision. Nobody has a problem with that. But he has to live with that decision.
If he can't stand to hire non-Christians then he made the wrong decision.
If he ever gets to court he will lose. It's a slam dunk. But he may just harass the state into settling. Either way he is trying to circumvent the law.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 639 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 3:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 649 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 4:08 PM JonF has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1275 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 647 of 824 (749542)
02-05-2015 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 643 by Faith
02-05-2015 3:46 PM


Faith writes:
As I said, I can't see any reason for him to discriminate just for the sake of discriminating,
Perhaps it comes a shock to you, but a lot of Christians have negative opinions of anyone who doesn't share their religion. (I don't mean to single out Christians, people of all different religious beliefs do that. It's just that the topic of this particular conversation happens to be Christian.) And, if you like, I'm sure I can find specific quotes from Ken Ham showing that he in fact has a negative opinion about non-Christians.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 643 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 3:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 662 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 8:11 PM subbie has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1275 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 648 of 824 (749543)
02-05-2015 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 645 by Faith
02-05-2015 4:04 PM


Faith writes:
Apparently some atheist organizations barraged the governor to rescind the approval of the rebate.
Any actual evidence of that? Or is this another unwarranted assumption

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 4:04 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 652 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 4:24 PM subbie has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 649 of 824 (749544)
02-05-2015 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 646 by JonF
02-05-2015 4:05 PM


Either he CAN circumvent the law, if that's really what he's doing, or he can't. It's not a crime to try to get around laws that interfere with your best business judgments. You guys just LOVE accusing Christians of any kind of misbehavior you can find or dream up.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by JonF, posted 02-05-2015 4:05 PM JonF has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 650 of 824 (749545)
02-05-2015 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 645 by Faith
02-05-2015 4:04 PM


quote:
Apparently some atheist organizations barraged the governor to rescind the approval of the rebate.
And he's going to court with THAT ?
It looks more and more like a publicity stunt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 4:04 PM Faith has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 651 of 824 (749547)
02-05-2015 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 620 by PaulK
02-05-2015 1:31 AM


Re: Ham To Sue For Divinely Appointed Tax Rebates
Do you really think that they would openly admit that the lawsuit is baseless ?
Of course it is not baseless. There is a large Christian base of gullible rubes, ripe for picking.
Ken Ham isn't going to miss an opportunity like that.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 620 by PaulK, posted 02-05-2015 1:31 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 652 of 824 (749548)
02-05-2015 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 648 by subbie
02-05-2015 4:08 PM


Any actual evidence of that? Or is this another unwarranted assumption
Family Research Council, State of the Ark Park
See link in article, as well as following excerpt:
AiG tried -- unsuccessfully -- to resolve the matter with the state before heading to the courts. Now, after exhausting all of his options, Ham is suing the state for singling out the religious group for discrimination. "The state granted its preliminary approval for the incentive. Only after the atheist groups objected and publicly attacked the state's preliminary approval, did the state renege on its commitment," Ham explained. "Our organization spent many months attempting to reason with state officials so that this lawsuit would not be necessary. However, the state was so insistent on treating our religious entity as a second-class citizen that we were simply left with no alternative but to proceed to court. This is that latest example of increasing government hostility toward religion in America, and it's certainly among the most blatant." Mike Johnson, chief counsel of Freedom Guard, is representing the group. Like us, he thinks the state is setting a dangerous and unlawful precedent.
Constitutional questions aside, with as many as 700,000 people expected at the Ark each year, the benefits for Kentucky far outweigh any perceived slights in hiring policy. Leaders created these tax breaks as a way to bring more people to the state -- and now that one organization is actively trying, they're being told no because of their religious orientation. And, as we've seen with frightening frequency, politicians like Beshear (either of their own accord or under the threat of legal action from atheists) are telling Christians that surrendering their beliefs is the price of doing business.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 648 by subbie, posted 02-05-2015 4:08 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 653 by PaulK, posted 02-05-2015 4:31 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 654 by subbie, posted 02-05-2015 4:32 PM Faith has replied
 Message 656 by JonF, posted 02-05-2015 5:00 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 653 of 824 (749549)
02-05-2015 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 652 by Faith
02-05-2015 4:24 PM


Interesting how he neglects to mention that discrimination issue. When it's the real reason that he isn't getting the incentives.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 4:24 PM Faith has not replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1275 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 654 of 824 (749550)
02-05-2015 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 652 by Faith
02-05-2015 4:24 PM


And you chose to believe Ham, despite the fact that his statement is filled with known lies.
Curious.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 4:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 655 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 4:45 PM subbie has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 655 of 824 (749553)
02-05-2015 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 654 by subbie
02-05-2015 4:32 PM


And you chose to believe Ham, despite the fact that his statement is filled with known lies.
1. What "known lies?"
2. That's written by Family Research Council ABOUT Ham's case by the way.
3. I don't know what I think of his lawsuit, I neither support nor reject it. Maybe he can make a case for hiring only Christians even at a for-profit theme park, that's what I'm waiting to see. As I've argued here I think he should change his mind about that because I don't think he needs Christians for this enterprise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 654 by subbie, posted 02-05-2015 4:32 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 658 by subbie, posted 02-05-2015 5:47 PM Faith has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 188 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 656 of 824 (749558)
02-05-2015 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 652 by Faith
02-05-2015 4:24 PM


You try to prove that atheists objected by quoting Hambo saying that atheists objected without any specifics.
What you need is specific objections and evidence that the alleged objectors actually did object. No such thing is mentioned in any of the local (to them) papers. We don't know where Tourism Arts and Heritage Cabinet Secretary Bob Stewart got his information, and there's lot lots of other possibilities.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 4:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 657 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 5:01 PM JonF has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 657 of 824 (749559)
02-05-2015 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 656 by JonF
02-05-2015 5:00 PM


As I mentioned, there is a link in the article to that evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 656 by JonF, posted 02-05-2015 5:00 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 660 by JonF, posted 02-05-2015 7:46 PM Faith has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 1275 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 658 of 824 (749566)
02-05-2015 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 655 by Faith
02-05-2015 4:45 PM


Yes, it is written about Ham, but the only evidence supporting your assumption that atheist groups were behind it is a quote from Ham.
"The state granted its preliminary approval for the incentive. Only after the atheist groups objected and publicly attacked the state's preliminary approval, did the state renege on its commitment," Ham explained. "Our organization spent many months attempting to reason with state officials so that this lawsuit would not be necessary. However, the state was so insistent on treating our religious entity as a second-class citizen that we were simply left with no alternative but to proceed to court. This is that latest example of increasing government hostility toward religion in America, and it's certainly among the most blatant."
We know for a fact that the state isn't treating AIG any differently from any other business seeking this kind of exemption, yet Ham insists it's being treated like a second class citizen. He claims it's an example of hostility toward religion, and we know it has nothing to do with religion. He implies that the state changed its stance on the exemption because groups objected, but we know that the reason the state denied the exemption is because Ham reneged on his previous promise that the park wouldn't discriminate in hiring based on religion.
These are all lies from Ham, but you still believe his claim, unsupported by any evidence, that it was atheist groups that pressured the state.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

This message is a reply to:
 Message 655 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 4:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 659 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 7:41 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 659 of 824 (749569)
02-05-2015 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 658 by subbie
02-05-2015 5:47 PM


Yes, it is written about Ham, but the only evidence supporting your assumption that atheist groups were behind it is a quote from Ham.
No, I kept referring to THIS LINK in the Family Research Council article but it kept being overlooked, so there it is, a letter to the IRS complaining about Ham's project, from the Freedom from Religion Foundation.
We know for a fact that the state isn't treating AIG any differently from any other business seeking this kind of exemption, yet Ham insists it's being treated like a second class citizen. He claims it's an example of hostility toward religion, and we know it has nothing to do with religion. He implies that the state changed its stance on the exemption because groups objected, but we know that the reason the state denied the exemption is because Ham reneged on his previous promise that the park wouldn't discriminate in hiring based on religion.
WHERE IS IT SAID HE MADE ANY SUCH PROMISE?
What you think YOU "know" is not necessarily the same thing that Ham knows.
These are all lies from Ham, but you still believe his claim, unsupported by any evidence, that it was atheist groups that pressured the state.
STOP CALLING PEOPLE LIARS, IT'S GETTING OLD AROUND HERE, THERE ARE USUALLY OTHER EXPLANATIONS FOR A DISCREPANCY BETWEEN YOUR VIEWS AND SOMEBODY ELSE'S.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 658 by subbie, posted 02-05-2015 5:47 PM subbie has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 676 by PaulK, posted 02-06-2015 1:23 AM Faith has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 188 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 660 of 824 (749571)
02-05-2015 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 657 by Faith
02-05-2015 5:01 PM


Ah, you're right. One atheist organization did draw their attention to it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 657 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 5:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 661 by Faith, posted 02-05-2015 7:57 PM JonF has not replied

  
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