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Author Topic:   Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham
subbie
Member (Idle past 484 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 781 of 824 (749808)
02-08-2015 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 778 by Faith
02-08-2015 5:06 PM


Re: Remedial Reading for me, please
Faith writes:

God wisely takes people where they are. They wouldn't listen to Him if He told them to give up their slaves.

Thou shalt not kill.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Thou shalt not steal.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

Go ahead, keep slaves, but gosh it sure would be swell if you didn't treat them so badly.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung


This message is a reply to:
 Message 778 by Faith, posted 02-08-2015 5:06 PM Faith has taken no action

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5968
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 782 of 824 (749813)
02-08-2015 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 778 by Faith
02-08-2015 5:06 PM


Re: Remedial Reading for me, please
God wisely takes people where they are. They wouldn't listen to Him if He told them to give up their slaves.

Is that similar to the way that you would not listen to him if he told you that he used evolution to create and maintain the biosphere?

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 778 by Faith, posted 02-08-2015 5:06 PM Faith has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 783 by jar, posted 02-08-2015 9:23 PM nwr has seen this message

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33887
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 783 of 824 (749814)
02-08-2015 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 782 by nwr
02-08-2015 9:07 PM


Re: Remedial Reading for me, please
nwr writes:

Faith writes:

God wisely takes people where they are. They wouldn't listen to Him if He told them to give up their slaves.


Is that similar to the way that you would not listen to him if he told you that he used evolution to create and maintain the biosphere?

IIRC some of the Gods described in the Old Testament had ways of persuasion that went beyond just taking people where they are. Seems there were stories of the God character bringing down fire and brimstone, plagues, killing the first born children, confusing all their languages, turning folk into pillars of salt, sending bears to rend them, even flooding them all out simply for disobeying that God's wishes. When they didn't listen to her she was more than capable of effective dope slaps at least in the stories.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 782 by nwr, posted 02-08-2015 9:07 PM nwr has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20739
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 784 of 824 (749820)
02-09-2015 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 759 by Faith
02-08-2015 1:38 PM


Faith writes:

You're overly emotional investment in this discussion is reflected in the many times you've condemned us all hell.

Oddly enough I've never condemned anybody to hell...

Sure you did, though usually indirectly or you soften it with euphemisms, for example this from your Message 1943 in the Is the Bible the inerrant word of God? Or is it the words of men? thread:

Faith writes:

If you don't start there you go off into deep darkness, which is where you and jar and others are going to end up.

Or this from Message 1888 in the same thread:

And the Bible authors do not make things up or tell lies. As God will no doubt inform you on Judgment Day.

Or this from Message 1782:

In your case I expect you'll be kicking yourself for eternity since you've knocked yourself out destroying the truth that would lead you to salvation.

Or this from Message 1775:

All the human-invented religions are just going to take you to Hell.

Or this from Message 1551:

Some day you will answer to Him for your insults.

Or this from Message 1351:

God will of course eventually straighten you out.

I was hoping to find where you said you hoped judgment day would come soon so that we wouldn't have to wait long to see how wrong we were, but I didn't come across it.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 759 by Faith, posted 02-08-2015 1:38 PM Faith has taken no action

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 785 of 824 (749826)
02-09-2015 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 778 by Faith
02-08-2015 5:06 PM


Re: Remedial Reading for me, please
God wisely takes people where they are. They wouldn't listen to Him if He told them to give up their slaves.

How impotent is your god?

And if he was so wise to figure that one out then why did he put that damned tree right in the middle of the garden?

No, this just doesn't add up. You've just offered a post-hoc rationalization of something you can't explain.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 778 by Faith, posted 02-08-2015 5:06 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 786 by Faith, posted 02-09-2015 11:34 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 674 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 786 of 824 (749829)
02-09-2015 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 785 by New Cat's Eye
02-09-2015 10:18 AM


Re: Remedial Reading for me, please
If you know the Old Testament at all you should know that the history of Israel was of disobedience to God down the centuries until they were finally brought under severe judgment. Only makes sense that He would avoid pushing them to do something that would be a real hardship for them to do. Abolishing slavery had to wait until a more opportune time in history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 785 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-09-2015 10:18 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 787 by subbie, posted 02-09-2015 11:50 AM Faith has replied
 Message 789 by Percy, posted 02-09-2015 12:03 PM Faith has taken no action
 Message 790 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-09-2015 12:05 PM Faith has replied

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 484 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 787 of 824 (749830)
02-09-2015 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 786 by Faith
02-09-2015 11:34 AM


Re: Remedial Reading for me, please
But giving up killing, stealing, sex and lying, that's a piece of cake.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung


This message is a reply to:
 Message 786 by Faith, posted 02-09-2015 11:34 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 788 by jar, posted 02-09-2015 12:00 PM subbie has seen this message
 Message 791 by Faith, posted 02-09-2015 12:34 PM subbie has seen this message

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33887
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 788 of 824 (749831)
02-09-2015 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 787 by subbie
02-09-2015 11:50 AM


Re: Remedial Reading for me, please
Getting your wanger wanged as part of the initiation is just a piece of cake too I imagine.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 787 by subbie, posted 02-09-2015 11:50 AM subbie has seen this message

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20739
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 789 of 824 (749832)
02-09-2015 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 786 by Faith
02-09-2015 11:34 AM


Re: Remedial Reading for me, please
Faith writes:

If you know the Old Testament at all you should know that the history of Israel was of disobedience to God...

Where in the Bible does God tell Israel to abandon slavery?

God never does, of course, but that's a side issue. The unanswered question is what legitimate reasons, specifically, does Ken Ham have for seeking an exception to First Amendment principles regarding separation of church and state.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 786 by Faith, posted 02-09-2015 11:34 AM Faith has taken no action

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 790 of 824 (749833)
02-09-2015 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 786 by Faith
02-09-2015 11:34 AM


Re: Remedial Reading for me, please
If you know the Old Testament at all you should know that the history of Israel was of disobedience to God down the centuries until they were finally brought under severe judgment.

Well yeah, that's why it doesn't makes sense to say that he couldn't tell them to not have slaves because they wouldn't accept it... They didn't obey much of his stuff anyways so he should have just went ahead and said that slavery was bad too.

That you rationalize slavery with the excuse that they wouldn't listen is just a post-hoc rationalization and a very human, and ungodly, excuse for the behavior.

The fact that slavery was not disowned is also another reason to realize that we're dealing with the words of men. An omnipotent and benevolent god would have just condemned slavery in his book, and then dealt with the ramifications of his people not being able to accept it. You know, kinda like he did with all the rest of the stuff they couldn't accept.

Only makes sense that He would avoid pushing them to do something that would be a real hardship for them to do.

That is contradicted by all the other times that god did push them to do something that would be a real hardship for them to do.

Like putting that damned tree right in the middle of the garden with the foreknowledge that they would eat from it.

He knew that and he also knew that they couldn't do without slavery, but he didn't hide the tree and he also didn't condemn slavery. That just doesn't make sense.

Abolishing slavery had to wait until a more opportune time in history.

Shenanigans. That's just you making up a post-hoc excuse.

There are plenty of other things that were abolished that we can't really do.

You know how you tell us that we're all terrible sinners in God's eyes and we simply can't hold up to his morality?

Why don't you apply the same argument there: he needs to wait until a more opportune time in history.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 786 by Faith, posted 02-09-2015 11:34 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 792 by Faith, posted 02-09-2015 12:38 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 674 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 791 of 824 (749836)
02-09-2015 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 787 by subbie
02-09-2015 11:50 AM


Re: Remedial Reading for me, please
No, none of it was a piece of cake, but if even the moral law is impossible to follow, why would God impose the physical hardship of the loss of a slave's work on them as well? In a way it would also be a hardship for the slaves themselves since many of the slaves in ancient Israel had become slaves to pay off a debt they couldn't otherwise pay, so what then? Debtor's prison? Which didn't exist in those days.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 787 by subbie, posted 02-09-2015 11:50 AM subbie has seen this message

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 674 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 792 of 824 (749837)
02-09-2015 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 790 by New Cat's Eye
02-09-2015 12:05 PM


Re: Remedial Reading for me, please
You know how you tell us that we're all terrible sinners in God's eyes and we simply can't hold up to his morality?

Why don't you apply the same argument there: he needs to wait until a more opportune time in history.

But that time came, somewhere around 33 AD when God sacrificed Jesus on the cross to pay our debt for all those commands we couldn't keep.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 790 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-09-2015 12:05 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 794 by jar, posted 02-09-2015 12:42 PM Faith has taken no action
 Message 795 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-09-2015 12:52 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33887
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 793 of 824 (749838)
02-09-2015 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 791 by Faith
02-09-2015 12:34 PM


Re: Remedial Reading for me, please
Faith writes:

No, none of it was a piece of cake, but if even the moral law is impossible to follow, why would God impose the physical hardship of the loss of a slave's work on them as well? In a way it would also be a hardship for the slaves themselves since many of the slaves in ancient Israel had become slaves to pay off a debt they couldn't otherwise pay, so what then? Debtor's prison? Which didn't exist in those days.

So the God you try to market was either unwilling or incapable of saying "Thou shalt free the slaves and pay them for the work they do!"

Got it.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 791 by Faith, posted 02-09-2015 12:34 PM Faith has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33887
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 794 of 824 (749839)
02-09-2015 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 792 by Faith
02-09-2015 12:38 PM


Re: Remedial Reading for me, please
Faith writes:

But that time came, somewhere around 33 AD when God sacrificed Jesus on the cross to pay our debt for all those commands we couldn't keep.

So after Jesus it was okay to keep slaves and know you would get forgiven for the evil you do.

Your God is a real asshole isn't she?

Got it.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 792 by Faith, posted 02-09-2015 12:38 PM Faith has taken no action

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 795 of 824 (749840)
02-09-2015 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 792 by Faith
02-09-2015 12:38 PM


Re: Remedial Reading for me, please
You know how you tell us that we're all terrible sinners in God's eyes and we simply can't hold up to his morality?
Why don't you apply the same argument there: he needs to wait until a more opportune time in history.

But that time came, somewhere around 33 AD when God sacrificed Jesus on the cross to pay our debt for all those commands we couldn't keep.

You're still not making sense.

God created us with a insatiable sex-drive but forbids us to have impure sexual thoughts.

But you know what, not having slaves is too hard so that's cool - have at them.

I'm sorry, but this has to be one of the most retarded arguments you could make.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 792 by Faith, posted 02-09-2015 12:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 796 by Faith, posted 02-09-2015 1:00 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
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