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Author Topic:   How the NT quotes Tanach texts
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 54 of 61 (718628)
02-07-2014 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Eliyahu
01-30-2014 3:07 PM


Eliyahu writes:

That must be the case, because the Septuagint (LXX) translates the word "almah" as "young woman".

as ramoss pointed out, this isn't the case:

quote:
ιὰ τοῦτο δώσει κύριος αὐτὸς ὑμῖν σημεῖον ἰδοὺ ἡ παρθένος ἐν γαστρὶ ἕξει καὶ τέξεται υἱόν καὶ καλέσεις τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Εμμανουηλ

it uses the word "parthenos", the same word matthew uses to mean "virgin":

quote:
ἰδοὺ ἡ παρθένος ἐν γαστρὶ ἕξει καὶ τέξεται υἱόν καὶ καλέσουσιν τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Ἐμμανουήλ ὅ ἐστιν μεθερμηνευόμενον μεθ’ ἡμῶν ὁ θεός

the problem is that the people who made the translation for the septuagint didn't seem to think that "parthenos" meant "virgin":

quote:
καὶ προσέσχεν τῇ ψυχῇ Δινας τῆς θυγατρὸς Ιακωβ καὶ ἠγάπησεν τὴν παρθένον καὶ ἐλάλησεν κατὰ τὴν διάνοιαν τῆς παρθένου αὐτῇ

that's genesis 34:3, describing dinah who was "defiled" in the previous verse.

So why does it state in Isaiah 7:14 "virgin"? Most likely Christian corruption.

the mistake lies with jewish translators.


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 Message 6 by Eliyahu, posted 01-30-2014 3:07 PM Eliyahu has not yet responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 55 of 61 (718629)
02-07-2014 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Faith
01-30-2014 4:04 PM


Faith writes:

The Septuagint's "parthenos" DOES imply virginity.

including when it's used in genesis 34:3? is dinah a virgin after she is "defiled" by shechem? (see the post above for the greek text).


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 96 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 56 of 61 (718631)
02-07-2014 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Eliyahu
01-29-2014 1:58 AM


you mean how the gospel of matthew misquotes the tanakh
i skimmed your OP a bit, i think all of those quotes are from matthew. matthew likes quoting (or rather, misquoting) the OT, and i suspect he's doing it for a reason.

Eliyahu writes:

The first one we find in Matthew 1:21;

the whole first half of the chapter is a genealogy of christ. the cursed king, who shall have no descendants on the throne, is specifically listed. five women are listed:

  1. tamar, who produces an heir by tricking and seducing her step father
  2. rahab, the prostitute of jericho
  3. ruth, who seduces a man to secure her inheritance
  4. bathsheba, though not by name because that would be too obvious, and
  5. mary, the "virgin".
he then cites a verse about her virginity that any hebrew-reading jewish person would look up and notice that it doesn't actually say "virgin" and it's obviously about something else. what do you think matthew was getting at?

start looking at the matthew quotes this way -- why is he quoting something that obviously is about something else, and frequently means something completely different. why is he highlighting this predictions that obviously can't apply to jesus?

because matthew's point is that jesus isn't the messiah. it's a satire of mark.


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