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Author Topic:   Why flood geology doesn't work, oil exploration as the example
RAZD
Member (Idle past 474 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 30 of 78 (722030)
03-14-2014 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Faith
03-14-2014 1:59 PM


Re: More untrue statements
Because there is no other explanation, other than magical behavior contrary to what is observed or evidence intentionally created to misrepresent reality.

.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Faith, posted 03-14-2014 1:59 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 03-14-2014 2:31 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 474 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 34 of 78 (722035)
03-14-2014 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
03-14-2014 2:31 PM


Re: More untrue statements
No Faith, there is no explanation you can think of that doesn't involve magic behavior.

Creativity yes, critical thinking no.

Critical thinking means considering untested concepts to be opinions, assumtions and guesses, and ones that violate known behavior for no given cause to be fantasy or delusion.

The magic behavior of water to sort layers and fossils to appear as if laid down over millenia and erode contrary to observed processes for example.

You invoke magic and then try to pretend that it is rational and logical.

The earth is billions of years old. Pretending otherwise is ... pretending.

Avoiding the massive evidence of an old earth is not critical thinking.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Faith, posted 03-14-2014 2:54 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 474 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 36 of 78 (722038)
03-14-2014 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
03-14-2014 2:27 PM


More fantasy
... Even exposed salt lakes aren't produced only by evaporation but partly by seepage into the ground. And water would be expected to seep down through the strata too. That's what leads to cementation of the rock as it carries the chemicals that bring that about. So for starters I'd question the need for exposure to air.

Salt is dissolved in water. When the water seeps into the ground it carries the salt (and other dissolved minerals) with it. To get crystals you need to remove water.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 03-14-2014 2:27 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by NoNukes, posted 03-14-2014 5:45 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 41 by Faith, posted 03-15-2014 3:34 AM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 474 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 37 of 78 (722039)
03-14-2014 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Faith
03-14-2014 2:54 PM


Re: I've nevRe: More untrue statements
Science is the process of TESTING things not making up fantasies based on magical behavior.

... It may take a while.

Indeed, it may take as long as a geological age ...

Meanwhile there is good evidence that the earth is not billions of years old.

Start a new thread and provide this purported evidence. Or deal with Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 ...

I consider anyone who believes in a young earth and does not deal with that thread to be delusional.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Faith, posted 03-14-2014 2:54 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 03-15-2014 3:40 AM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 474 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 45 of 78 (722075)
03-15-2014 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Faith
03-15-2014 3:34 AM


Re: More fantasy
Well, I got the seepage idea from Wikipedia. ...

Seepage does occur, but the salt would still be dissolved, it doesn't dry out on its own, normally it needs heat (sunlight) and a place for water vapour to go (atmosphere).


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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RAZD
Member (Idle past 474 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 46 of 78 (722077)
03-15-2014 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
03-15-2014 3:40 AM


earthquakes -- who's fault is it?
Meanwhile there is good evidence that the earth is not billions of years old.

Start a new thread and provide this purported evidence.

Well I believe I proved it for the Grand Canyon-Grand Staircase area if nothing else.

No you just asserted it.

... If it's okay with you to think there were something like 700 million years with no tectonic activity in that region then I guess my argument doesn't mean anything to you. ...

1st it doesn't matter how long a period goes without tectonic activity, it is not a periodic cycle behavior. There is no 'law of earthquakes' that one must occur within any set time for every location on earth. Other places have gone longer without, and maybe that is something you can explore further on this or another thread.

2nd there WAS activity, there are lots of faults that cross the canyon, that such activity didn't satisfy you in type and size of displacement is more related to your unscientific expectations (ie--not based on theory or hypothesis derived from evidence).

But again that is a different topic. Perhaps a new thread on earthquakes?


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 03-15-2014 3:40 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 03-15-2014 11:42 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 474 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 56 of 78 (722135)
03-16-2014 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by NoNukes
03-16-2014 12:33 PM


Seepage
If I had read such an article, I would have known immediately that seepage was not contributing directly to desalination, ...

As far as I can see seepage could affect salt crystallization in two ways:

1st by seeping into the basin from underground where it has accumulated dissolved minerals such as salts, and

2nd by periodically seeping out of basins leaving thin shallow layers of brine that would heat up faster and evaporate more than deep layers could.

Other than that it would be a wash ...


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by NoNukes, posted 03-16-2014 12:33 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 474 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 59 of 78 (722176)
03-17-2014 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Percy
03-17-2014 12:04 PM


when is a false statement a lie?
NoNukes writes:

I like to be pretty slow on the draw with the 'L' word...

Me too - first time in over 14 years.

Yes, lying carries the connotation of intent to deceive rather than just making a false statement.

One simple rule of thumb could be that the first time a false statement is made that it is given the benefit of the doubt, but that if it is repeated after it has been demonstrated to be wrong then intent can be inferred.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Percy, posted 03-17-2014 12:04 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 474 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 68 of 78 (722458)
03-21-2014 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by lokiare
03-21-2014 9:27 AM


Wow, I just read the thread and saw quite a few logical fallacies thrown around.

Good luck with that.

Edit: The salt could have formed by underground heat evaporating the moisture which escaped in near microscopic vents (which are quite common). That's my unresearched response just off the top of my head

(1) What is the source of heat and the evidence for it?

(2) How do you explain geysers and the low salinity of that water? But lots of mineral deposits around the surface pools ...

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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 Message 67 by lokiare, posted 03-21-2014 9:27 AM lokiare has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 474 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 72 of 78 (722520)
03-21-2014 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Taq
03-21-2014 3:43 PM


This would produce salt crystals that are dispersed in other sediments. That is not what we see. Instead, we see deposits that are nearly 100% salt, ...

Or, if an underground lake were heated, it would leave vast caverns above the salt, many times larger than the salt deposits.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Taq, posted 03-21-2014 3:43 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
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