Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 52 (9178 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: Anig
Upcoming Birthdays: Theodoric
Post Volume: Total: 918,104 Year: 5,361/9,624 Month: 386/323 Week: 26/204 Day: 2/24 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Arizona: Showing America how to avoid thinking since 1912
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9341
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(3)
Message 25 of 397 (720734)
02-27-2014 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
02-27-2014 5:35 AM


Re: Such a groundswell of opinion against freedom of religion
Sin is not the same thing as race
That says it all. This one comment shows that you feel that the law is an attempt to force one subset of the populations views on to all of society. That Faith is tyranny.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:35 AM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9341
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 57 of 397 (720782)
02-27-2014 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
02-27-2014 3:49 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
people with a strong moral conviction against gay marriage are going to give up their businesses and go to prison.
Yup. Just like all those people that went to prison after passage of the civil rights act.
Blacks are no different than those evil gays are they.
(I tried to you use more vulgar slang on that last line, but just couldn't sink to that level.)

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 3:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 4:57 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9341
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(3)
Message 62 of 397 (720787)
02-27-2014 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by New Cat's Eye
02-27-2014 4:21 PM


Re: Such a groundswell of opinion against freedom of religion
There are such things as what is right for society and what stands constitutional muster.
This law back fired on the bigots because society has reached the point that as a whole we do not countenance overt state sanctioned bigotry. I know that bigots are going to go kicking and screaming, but you will go. Society has matured a lot in the last 10 years on issues of race, sexual orientation and immigrants. These are baby steps but strong steps forcing the bigots further to the margins of society.
The problem with them being pushed to the margins is their final death throes have a good chance of being very disruptive and violent.
The SPLC has recently reported hate groups are declining but are getting more violent.
Source

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-27-2014 4:21 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-27-2014 5:26 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9341
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(3)
Message 64 of 397 (720790)
02-27-2014 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
02-27-2014 4:40 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
Why shouldjn't someone who wants to open a business have the right to take whatever customers they WANT to take? That is basic freedom.
No it isn't. That is a bizarre libertarian fantasy of how things should be. Funny how people like you want all the pluses of government but don't want to have to follow any laws you don't like.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 4:40 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:21 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9341
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 173 of 397 (721043)
03-03-2014 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by DevilsAdvocate
03-03-2014 6:06 AM


Re: something to think about
the indenturing of people from the orient
Millions of white europeans were held in indentured servitude also. It wasn't a racial thing it was a "fuck everyone else I got mine" thing. How very christian.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-03-2014 6:06 AM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by dwise1, posted 03-03-2014 10:35 AM Theodoric has replied
 Message 178 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-03-2014 12:02 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 184 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 2:24 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9341
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 201 of 397 (721107)
03-03-2014 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by dwise1
03-03-2014 10:35 AM


Re: something to think about
"I'll pay your passage to the colonies and in exchange you will work for me for a specific period of time (or with whatever terms) to pay off your debt to me."
They worked oof much more than the debt of passage. Indentured servitude could be much harsher than slavery, as the slave was a lifetime investment but indentured servants were only around for 7 years or so. Though a large percentage of immigrants to the new world in the 17th and 18th century were indentured servants, they came because their prospects in Europe seemed to be even worse. There are a number of good articles about the subject on the web. The wiki article is pretty good, but a number of others talk more about the brutality of the arrangement.
As for the Chinese indentured servitude it is a little different but just as harsh and brutal. It is known as the Chinese ticket system.
quote:
Railroad building and continued westward expansion created a huge demand for labor that neither voluntary immigration from Europe nor involuntary internal migration could satisfy.To make up the deficit, the growing nation looked to China as a source of cheap workers. On paper, the Chinese coolies appeared to be voluntary migrants enlisted by brokers in China to work for American employers who paid the broker and shipping agent and collected the debt from the Chinese employees’ wages. In practice, most were forced into service in China and placed in occupations and regions in the United States where alternative employment was impossible, leaving them at the employer’s mercy. This credit-ticket system, which brought 350,000 Chinese laborers to the American mainland between 1840 and 1882, embodied many features of the old indentured labor system. In contrast to earlier European immigrants, however, the Chinese were never encouraged to become permanent settlers or citizens and were prohibited from doing so after 1882.
Source
The difference between both and modern human trafficking is that modern human trafficking has no legal basis. Indentured servitude and Chinese-ticket system were supported by and authorized by the law. Society approved of the brutal systems.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by dwise1, posted 03-03-2014 10:35 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9341
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 202 of 397 (721108)
03-03-2014 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Faith
03-03-2014 2:24 PM


Re: something to think about
Many regarded the Civil War as God's judgment for slavery.
And many don't think a god had anything to do with it. So there you go.
What I am trying to say is that what "many regard" means absolutely squat.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 2:24 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9341
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 249 of 397 (721300)
03-06-2014 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Faith
03-06-2014 7:15 AM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
The right to refuse service for any reason, however, IS a right, one that you apparently don't support.
Where is this right of which you speak granted? I do not see the tight to refuse service anywhere. Not in Constitution or Bill of Rights or any state constitution.
There is no right to refuse service.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 03-06-2014 7:15 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-06-2014 2:26 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 273 by Faith, posted 03-06-2014 3:48 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9341
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 278 of 397 (721339)
03-06-2014 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Faith
03-06-2014 3:48 PM


Re: There are Christians who disagree with Faith
There is a right to act according to conscience
Show me where this "right" is codified. What document is the "right" in?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Faith, posted 03-06-2014 3:48 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9341
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 352 of 397 (721464)
03-07-2014 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 351 by RAZD
03-07-2014 6:48 AM


Re: bigotry
is a fundamental right to equal treatment regardless of race, age, sex, creed, orientation, culture, or any other category you want to apply.
Even felons.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by RAZD, posted 03-07-2014 6:48 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9341
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 359 of 397 (721474)
03-07-2014 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by Faith
03-07-2014 3:04 PM


Re: J G Machen "Christianity and Liberalism"
Don't get me started on missionaries

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by Faith, posted 03-07-2014 3:04 PM Faith has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024