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Author Topic:   Arizona: Showing America how to avoid thinking since 1912
Taq
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Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 5 of 397 (720639)
02-25-2014 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
02-25-2014 12:05 PM


The same bill is being considered by the legislators in my state. It is a direct reaction to the "Add the Words" campaign that is trying to get LGBT added to the protected classes list. They are trying to negate what is quickly becoming an inevitable extension of long derserved rights to the gay community.
I do find that Republicans tend to lack a sense of irony. They are trying to push through a religious freedom act that actually allows public places to discriminate against people based on their religious beliefs. In a state that has a relatively large Mormon population, it could actually lead to people putting up signs that Mormons can not enter their place of business.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 10 of 397 (720703)
02-26-2014 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Coragyps
02-26-2014 4:22 PM


You WILL BE CHECKED for magic underwear!!!
Nice to see that others use the same humor I do.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(3)
Message 33 of 397 (720749)
02-27-2014 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
02-27-2014 5:35 AM


Re: Such a groundswell of opinion against freedom of religion
Sin is not the same thing as race
Sin is not the same thing as law. We are talking about laws that govern christians, muslims, jews, hindus, atheists, etc. These are secular laws, not edicts of a specific religion.
If you open and operate a business you must comply with the laws of the land. If that includes not discriminating against people, then you are beholden to those laws.
But being forced to make a wedding cake or take photographs which would be specifically a validation of the gay lifestyle when you consider gay marriage to be a violation of a basic principle given by God, is what I mean by tyranny.
No different than being required to allow people of color sit at your lunch counter.
Baking a cake or taking someone's picture does not equate to you personally validating their lifestyle. That is completely preposterous. I can't find anywhere in the Bible where it says that you can not bake a cake for a gay person. If its in there, please show us.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 34 of 397 (720750)
02-27-2014 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by New Cat's Eye
02-27-2014 11:54 AM


Re: Such a groundswell of opinion against freedom of religion
Then fuck 'em, let them pass their stupid law and let the businesses that discriminate go out of business.
Sure. Just look at how well that worked in the South with segregation. Oh wait . . .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-27-2014 11:54 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 44 of 397 (720765)
02-27-2014 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
02-27-2014 3:49 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
Right. Like I just posted. So what's going to happen is that people with a strong moral conviction against gay marriage are going to give up their businesses and go to prison.
People made the same complaints when they outlawed segregation.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 46 of 397 (720767)
02-27-2014 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by New Cat's Eye
02-27-2014 2:07 PM


Re: Such a groundswell of opinion against freedom of religion
Saw that one coming from a mile away. This is nothing like that.
Black people had no option. They had no Yelp apps. They had no voice. They needed the help.
Its different today.
I don't think it is different. Blacks made up more of the population in the South than homosexuals do now. If keeping blacks out of your stores and places of business did not hurt them then, how would it hurt them now with an even smaller minority?/

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Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(4)
Message 47 of 397 (720768)
02-27-2014 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Faith
02-27-2014 2:59 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
You all have been making comparisons with racism which isn't the case if it is intended for the circumstances I'm remembering, and with general opposition to homosexuality which I gather may also not be what it's about, but only about being forced to do something that validates gay marriage.
It is worded in vague terms so that it isn't a straight up (pun intended) attempt to ban gays from businesses. It allows a business owner to deny service to anyone if it goes against their deeply held religious beliefs. This means that you could have stores that ban catholics, delis that won't bake cakes for interracial couples, wedding planners that will refuse service to Catholics, etc. It is an open license for people to use their businesses as a cudgel for their bigotry. It has no place in this country.

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 Message 36 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 2:59 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-27-2014 4:29 PM Taq has replied
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 4:40 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(3)
Message 48 of 397 (720769)
02-27-2014 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Faith
02-27-2014 3:42 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
Freedom is SUPPOSED to be for DIFFERING opinions.
Freedom isn't segregation, which is what you are calling for.

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 Message 40 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 3:42 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 52 of 397 (720775)
02-27-2014 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by New Cat's Eye
02-27-2014 4:29 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
How many businesses do you think are going to turn down money?
Why would they expose their bigotry to the public and face the backlash?
For the ones that do, lets let them make themselves known so we can shun them and stop supporting their businesses.
Your argument boils down to this. It is ok to have a pro-bigotry bill because no one will actually take advantage of it. That seems like a really poor argument to me.

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 Message 51 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-27-2014 4:29 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(4)
Message 56 of 397 (720781)
02-27-2014 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
02-27-2014 4:40 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
Oh brother. Cudgel, yet, as if a businesses aren't extremely vulnerable to public opinion and exist in the first place to get customers. It's government, it's LAWS that act as the cudgel, such as laws that deny business owners the right to refuse service to anyone for whatever reason, if they are willing to risk going out of business.
This business was doing just fine.
Do you think segregation in the South stopped because people were going out of business?
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 66 of 397 (720792)
02-27-2014 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
02-27-2014 4:57 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
Right, smear basic moral attitudes of Christians with racism, that's all it takes.
The current attitudes towards sexual preference are no different than racism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 4:57 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:22 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 70 of 397 (720796)
02-27-2014 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by New Cat's Eye
02-27-2014 5:05 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
For two, most people today do not tolerate discrimination.
It is so widely tolerated that a pro-discrimination bill passed the state legislature in Arizona, and the same type of bill is being considered in many other states.
There really is no comparison to the Civil Rights era. Like, at all.
Actually, it is more like the pre-Civil rights era when segregation was first considered and then enacted.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 71 of 397 (720797)
02-27-2014 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Faith
02-27-2014 5:22 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
Right. That's how evil gets defined as good and good as evil. Welcome to the USSA. Some "sexual preferences," need I point out, would be condemned by even you.
If I condemn pedophilia, does that mean that others are justified in condemning inter-racial marriages?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:22 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 73 of 397 (720800)
02-27-2014 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Faith
02-27-2014 5:21 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
Those of us who believe the Bible is the inspired inerrant word of God will choose to die rather than be forced to do something that violates it.
Please cite the verse where it says that you are not to do business with homosexuals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:21 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:28 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10190
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.2


(1)
Message 76 of 397 (720803)
02-27-2014 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Faith
02-27-2014 5:25 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
So we go out of business then and have to live on the streets. Same difference.
You could always serve the public in a non-discriminatory fashion.
Last I checked, baking a cake for a homosexual will not send you to Hell.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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