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Author Topic:   Arizona: Showing America how to avoid thinking since 1912
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


(2)
Message 17 of 397 (720721)
02-27-2014 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
02-27-2014 3:31 AM


Re: Such a groundswell of opinion against freedom of religion
Do I have this wrong or didn't this proposed law come about to protect Christian business owners such as bakers who refused on moral grounds to make a wedding cake for homosexuals or photographers who refused on moral grounds to photograph a gay wedding ceremony? And if this is its basis, apparently you are all in favor of forcing these business people to act against their conscience? Really? isn't this tyranny? Whatever happened to freedom?
Please substitute the word "gay" with "a black person" or "a jew" and think again.
This is not about religious freedom but about discrimination. The hateful bigots just want to have their backs covered when/if they want to act like loathable scum of the earth.
Can you even imagine where this slippery slope would end up? A police officer not answering a burglary call because the homeowners are a lesbian couple. Airport security official denying entrance to a gay couple thus making them miss their flight or at the extremes denying entrance of a hetero couple travelling to their daughters gay wedding...
There is nothing, absolutely nothing good or admirable in these law proposals - they are just evil and void of anything even remotely good.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 3:31 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:35 AM saab93f has replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


(1)
Message 19 of 397 (720723)
02-27-2014 5:41 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
02-27-2014 5:35 AM


Re: Such a groundswell of opinion against freedom of religion
That's the bogus comparison you all try to make. Sin is not the same thing as race, and people ought to know better than to make such a comparison.
The only thing I might want to hold the Christians to is that if they are going to stand on conscience against homosexuality they should also stand on conscience against other sins such as adultery, unmarried couples living together and all that.
Silly, there is no such thing as a sin. They are all made-up concepts to control the masses. Christians are just picking bits they see fit to bolster their agenda and discard those that come too close for comfort.
Gays are born that way - can you even begin to comprehend why anyone would choose something that might subject them to ridicule, hate and emotional and bodily harm, even death?
About being a citizen nevertheless, in Kansas the wording of the proposal was such that:
"But that’s just the tip of the iceberg. In addition to barring all anti-discrimination lawsuits against private employers, the new law permits government employees to deny service to gays in the name of religious liberty. This is nothing new, but the sweep of Kansas’ statute is breathtaking. Any government employee is given explicit permission to discriminate against gay couplesnot just county clerks and DMV employees, but literally anyone who works for the state of Kansas. If a gay couple calls the police, an officer may refuse to help them if interacting with a gay couple violates his religious principles. State hospitals can turn away gay couples at the door and deny them treatment with impunity. Gay couples can be banned from public parks, public pools, anything that operates under the aegis of the Kansas state government."
Kansas anti-gay segregation bill is an abomination.
Edited by saab93f, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 5:35 AM Faith has not replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 38 of 397 (720759)
02-27-2014 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Faith
02-27-2014 2:59 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
So, if that's what it's all about then let's keep this discussion specific to that sort of thing: you are all still in favor of forcing people to make wedding cakes and take photographs for a gay wedding, and deny them the freedom of conscience to refuse that kind of service?
Why should religious conviction be given any thought over equality, tolerance or just basic humanity. The people who are in favour of legislation such as this are just bigoted and evil.
I cannot comprehend why religious conviction is at all given any more weight than if I was to refuse service because I play badminton or am an active in a political party.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 2:59 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 3:42 PM saab93f has not replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


(2)
Message 45 of 397 (720766)
02-27-2014 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
02-27-2014 3:49 PM


Re: Let's limit this discussion to the specifics
Please tell me Faith how not being human can be moral?
Using such a cowardly justification for hatefulness and pettiness speaks more about religion than of anything else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 02-27-2014 3:49 PM Faith has not replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


(3)
Message 354 of 397 (721469)
03-07-2014 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by Dr Adequate
03-07-2014 2:22 PM


Re: J G Machen "Christianity and Liberalism"
Tthe major Constitutional founders were anti-Christian themselves and traitors to the original Christian vision of earlier generations.
Let us be patriots and remain true to their vision, then, instead of introducing un-American novelties into the law.
Not exactly to be nitpicking but were not the earlier generations of Americans actually "indians" or natives? Xianity would not have mattered to them much :-)
It is strange how the people of The Religion of Peace (tm) are in many cases actually totally void of any love or even compassion? The religious freedom seems to apply only to which denomination of xianity one belongs to.
Edited by saab93f, : Typos

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-07-2014 2:22 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-07-2014 2:35 PM saab93f has replied
 Message 356 by Taq, posted 03-07-2014 2:54 PM saab93f has not replied
 Message 358 by Faith, posted 03-07-2014 3:04 PM saab93f has replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


(2)
Message 360 of 397 (721475)
03-07-2014 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 355 by Dr Adequate
03-07-2014 2:35 PM


Re: J G Machen "Christianity and Liberalism"
And if they had laws about selling cake to gay people, I've yet to hear of it.
I am quite sure that someone finds a way to discover such a law or at least an order or a decree.
The USofA is 238 years old construction. In its soil lay the footprints of several of millenia of people who had never "walked and talked wit Jeebus". To somehow describe what the puritans brought along as what the humanity or even America is altogether about is such narrowmindedness that it even exceeds Faith's bigotry.
Edited by saab93f, : Typo, again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-07-2014 2:35 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


(3)
Message 361 of 397 (721476)
03-07-2014 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 358 by Faith
03-07-2014 3:04 PM


Re: J G Machen "Christianity and Liberalism"
Many Indian tribes and individuals did become Christian.
Yes, in a pretty similar fashion as what happened in Africa. Was is Desmond Tutu who said abou the missionaries that "When they came, we had the land and they had the Bibles. Next thing we noticed was that we had the Bibles and they the land"?
In most cases the Religion of Love(tm) has been spread with either a sword or a rifle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 358 by Faith, posted 03-07-2014 3:04 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by Faith, posted 03-07-2014 3:28 PM saab93f has replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 364 of 397 (721479)
03-07-2014 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by Faith
03-07-2014 3:28 PM


Re: J G Machen "Christianity and Liberalism"
No, there were genuine Christian converts among the Indians, converted by love and persuasion and not by sword.
Yes, you are right. Of course there were also those who converted voluntarily. Does it vindicate xianity in a similar fashion as it would atheism since peeps turn from xianity to unbelief without coersion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by Faith, posted 03-07-2014 3:28 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by Faith, posted 03-07-2014 3:47 PM saab93f has not replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 388 of 397 (721508)
03-08-2014 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 385 by Faith
03-08-2014 6:17 AM


Re: The Meaning of Jesus' Death
But the entire universe would have been different so perhaps all the planets were habitable. Who knows, I don't.
While it is just fine to say "I don't know", there are limits to which it can be applied. Throwing wild unsubstantiated ideas is all creationists are capable of whether it is water-canopy, racing tectonic plates or in this case Mars and Venus and? being habitable.
You do know that just recently we (the human race) got a probe on Mars and what you are implying is that there'd been a way to mass transport billions of people...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 385 by Faith, posted 03-08-2014 6:17 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 389 by Faith, posted 03-08-2014 8:14 AM saab93f has not replied

  
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