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Author Topic:   Arizona: Showing America how to avoid thinking since 1912
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 196 of 397 (721097)
03-03-2014 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Faith
03-03-2014 3:13 PM


Re: Something more to think about
Sure Faith, hate and lies are good. In your world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 3:13 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 197 of 397 (721099)
03-03-2014 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Faith
03-03-2014 2:49 PM


Re: something to think about
It would be nice if you'd read my posts about these things.
It would be nice if you would understand that the US is not a theocracy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 2:49 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 198 of 397 (721100)
03-03-2014 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Faith
03-03-2014 2:51 PM


Re: something to think about
Those things were not the original intent of the Constitution, as many of our early court cases should inform you. But in general I agree that the Constitutional generation were traitors to the Christian heritage of this country.
I would still like you to explain why people in a free country should have to follow the edicts of a religion that they don't belong to.

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Tempe 12ft Chicken
Member (Idle past 336 days)
Posts: 438
From: Tempe, Az.
Joined: 10-25-2012


(2)
Message 199 of 397 (721101)
03-03-2014 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Faith
03-03-2014 2:27 PM


Re: something to think about
Faith writes:
Yes, Tempe, being in a land with rich resources is God's blessing too. Keep in mind that it would be possible to live among such riches without knowing how to exploit them. Knowledge is also God's gift. There is no such thing as luck.
Again, you are just shoehorning your God into this reasoning, there is absolutely no reason for him to be involved. Plus, it wasn't completely unused or unclaimed resources, these were stolen from the native people of North America. So, even though God claims, "Thou shalt not steal", the people that were being so blessed gained it through armed takeover of the individuals who were already here. Science has taught us how to exploit these many resources, not God, so this is just another instance of you cramming God into an explanation which does not warrant him.
I will agree that there really is no such thing as luck when it comes to America's gains in terms of resources. There was Skill (ability to decimate the local population, claiming what was originally theirs for the colonists/America), Knowledge (gained from a strict study of the natural world and the uses of resources available), and Greed (desire for all natural resources to be under control of America and not the savages that already owned the area). Europe was a land of rich resources when it was first found as well, but we humans, especially western cultures have a tendency to reduce the available resources in an area once we arrive there.
Calling any of this God's blessing is a joke, especially since your God first chose to bless the Native American people with these gifts of abundant resources, which were then stolen from them breaking one of the commandments. Yet, even breaking one of the main "Laws" of Christianity brought blessings to those of European descent? How does this make sense at all?
Basically, Occam's Razor says there is no need to add God into an already well reasoned solution to the abundance of raw materials in North America, the ability to use these resources, or the means for taking them from the rightful owners. That can be explained simply by nature and the native people's respect for it (explains abundance), science (explains knowledge and how the means were created to decimate an indigenious population). Your God is unnecessary to this explanation....it seems all he did was say a blessing in your mind while humanity did all the legwork. What a terrible blessing when we still have to do every single step to actually get the resources. I, for one, will ignore this unneeded blessing from on high.
Back on the main topic, which is Arizona, I am glad you at least admit that you are for any type of discrimination, as long as it's religiously motivated. I'm not surprised by it because of your sick desire for a Christian theocracy in America, but I'm glad you can at least admit that you are for bigotry based on belief. Most of your fellow Christians try to avoid admitting to that fact, so I give you credit for that at least. So, I have a suggestion for you and all the rest of your fundamentalist ilk......Move to Russia. They have a fundamentalist, right wing utopia going on in that country right now that would be perfect for you and your kind. You can discriminate against homosexuals to your heart's content, you can force employee's under you to attend mass daily during the workday, and they are always cutting the budget. Enjoy your vodka and utopian, hate filled new country and leave this one to the people who would like to continue embracing freedom for everyone.

The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins
Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov
If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson
What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams

This message is a reply to:
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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 200 of 397 (721104)
03-03-2014 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 188 by Faith
03-03-2014 2:46 PM


Re: something to think about
The entire world witnessed the growth of America's amazing prosperity and marveled at it.
There were numerous empires that grew large and fell. Do you think all of them were because they were blessed by God. How about the Babylonian, Egyptian, Assyrian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Mongolian, Holy Roman Empire, Japanese, and Briitish? Where they prosperous because God blessed them?
You need to learn some history.
I have a pretty firm grasp of history. Just not your warped view of it.
History IS in God's hands, all of it. Nothing happens by accident.
God allows mankind to rise and fall. God's intervention into the affairs of man, only he knows the full extent of. Don't pretend you know.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
"In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 2:46 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 201 of 397 (721107)
03-03-2014 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by dwise1
03-03-2014 10:35 AM


Re: something to think about
"I'll pay your passage to the colonies and in exchange you will work for me for a specific period of time (or with whatever terms) to pay off your debt to me."
They worked oof much more than the debt of passage. Indentured servitude could be much harsher than slavery, as the slave was a lifetime investment but indentured servants were only around for 7 years or so. Though a large percentage of immigrants to the new world in the 17th and 18th century were indentured servants, they came because their prospects in Europe seemed to be even worse. There are a number of good articles about the subject on the web. The wiki article is pretty good, but a number of others talk more about the brutality of the arrangement.
As for the Chinese indentured servitude it is a little different but just as harsh and brutal. It is known as the Chinese ticket system.
quote:
Railroad building and continued westward expansion created a huge demand for labor that neither voluntary immigration from Europe nor involuntary internal migration could satisfy.To make up the deficit, the growing nation looked to China as a source of cheap workers. On paper, the Chinese coolies appeared to be voluntary migrants enlisted by brokers in China to work for American employers who paid the broker and shipping agent and collected the debt from the Chinese employees’ wages. In practice, most were forced into service in China and placed in occupations and regions in the United States where alternative employment was impossible, leaving them at the employer’s mercy. This credit-ticket system, which brought 350,000 Chinese laborers to the American mainland between 1840 and 1882, embodied many features of the old indentured labor system. In contrast to earlier European immigrants, however, the Chinese were never encouraged to become permanent settlers or citizens and were prohibited from doing so after 1882.
Source
The difference between both and modern human trafficking is that modern human trafficking has no legal basis. Indentured servitude and Chinese-ticket system were supported by and authorized by the law. Society approved of the brutal systems.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 202 of 397 (721108)
03-03-2014 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Faith
03-03-2014 2:24 PM


Re: something to think about
Many regarded the Civil War as God's judgment for slavery.
And many don't think a god had anything to do with it. So there you go.
What I am trying to say is that what "many regard" means absolutely squat.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

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 Message 184 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 2:24 PM Faith has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(2)
Message 203 of 397 (721111)
03-03-2014 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Faith
03-03-2014 2:44 PM


Re: something to think about
Yes because legal slavery, indenturtude, prostitution, and outright slaughter of millions of a land's native inhabitants by the orders of our "Christian" country is so much more Christ-like than what we have now. Or why would there need to be a Great Awakening in the British Isles and America if our country was so Christian back then. Revisionist history much?
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
"In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 2:44 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 6:55 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 204 of 397 (721115)
03-03-2014 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by DevilsAdvocate
03-03-2014 4:22 PM


Re: something to think about
Revisionist history much?
Wow! That is something you really need to ask yourself!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-03-2014 4:22 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 205 of 397 (721116)
03-03-2014 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Faith
03-03-2014 2:27 PM


Re: something to think about
Keep in mind that it would be possible to live among such riches without knowing how to exploit them. Knowledge is also God's gift.
No to be braggin' or nuthin', but I'll bet I know more about cementing and fracking oil wells than Jesus does. Just sayin'.....

"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 2:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 206 of 397 (721117)
03-03-2014 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Faith
03-03-2014 6:55 PM


Re: something to think about
So provide evidence that I am wrong.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 207 of 397 (721119)
03-03-2014 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Coragyps
03-03-2014 6:56 PM


Re: something to think about
I'd bet you for sure but I won't be able to prove you wrong until He returns.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Coragyps, posted 03-03-2014 6:56 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-03-2014 7:50 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 209 by nwr, posted 03-03-2014 9:11 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 230 by ramoss, posted 03-05-2014 6:04 PM Faith has not replied

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3101 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 208 of 397 (721120)
03-03-2014 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
03-03-2014 7:29 PM


Re: something to think about
Than why are you even on this board? The whole purpose of this to reason and provide arguments for or against your position. You are so sure you are right about everything but don't provide one shred of evidence. Blind faith is not true faith.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
"In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 03-03-2014 7:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 209 of 397 (721123)
03-03-2014 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
03-03-2014 7:29 PM


Re: something to think about
I'd bet you for sure but I won't be able to prove you wrong until He returns.
That's going to be a long, long wait.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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Capt Stormfield
Member (Idle past 456 days)
Posts: 428
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


Message 210 of 397 (721124)
03-03-2014 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by PaulK
03-03-2014 2:06 PM


Re: Something more to think about
A tragedy caused by religion
Whatever was going through the heads of those morons, it was not Seventh-day Adventism. I was raised an SDA, and they emphatically do not discourage seeking medical care. They run a medical school at Loma Linda, FFS.
KP

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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