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Author Topic:   What Does Critical Thinking Mean To You?
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 226 of 339 (722864)
03-25-2014 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 225 by Stile
03-25-2014 1:37 PM


Re: 2 more cents
I don't think the issue of Thinking Critically is about the quantity of information you have.
Well, it has to be a non-zero amount of information. There has to be something to think about.
And I think that there's also a non-zero amount of information that still doesn't provide us enough stuff to think with. I can see why people are saying that determining that you don't have enough info to decide is still critical thinking, but it just doesn't seem enough for me.
It's like if we were baking. And you measured up some flour and said, well, we don't have enough ingredients to make this cake. But hey, we're still in the kitchen measuring stuff so technically we're baking. I say no, you haven't actually baked anything yet.
I guess I just hold it to a higher standard or something. But I may very well be wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 225 by Stile, posted 03-25-2014 1:37 PM Stile has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Tangle, posted 03-25-2014 2:48 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 227 of 339 (722867)
03-25-2014 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by New Cat's Eye
03-25-2014 2:34 PM


Re: 2 more cents
CS writes:
Well, it has to be a non-zero amount of information. There has to be something to think about.
It would be an unusual situation where you had zilch to go on, but assuming you found one, so long as you recognised that there was nothing at all to go on and you might as well toss a coin, that would be critical thinking because you've thought it through and formed a rational conclusion.
If instead, you removed the entrails of a chicken and studied it or omens, you wouldn't be.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-25-2014 2:34 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-25-2014 4:42 PM Tangle has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 228 of 339 (722881)
03-25-2014 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Tangle
03-25-2014 2:48 PM


Re: 2 more cents
It would be an unusual situation where you had zilch to go on, but assuming you found one, so long as you recognised that there was nothing at all to go on and you might as well toss a coin, that would be critical thinking because you've thought it through and formed a rational conclusion.
Are there mountain lions in Illinois?
Honest question, I'd like to know.
You really think that a coin flip is a critically thinking an answer to the question?
Why not: "I don't know."?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Tangle, posted 03-25-2014 2:48 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Tangle, posted 03-25-2014 6:04 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 237 by ringo, posted 03-26-2014 12:34 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 229 of 339 (722882)
03-25-2014 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by New Cat's Eye
03-24-2014 3:07 PM


Recognize unstated assumptions and values
Comprehend and use language with accuracy, clarity, and discernment
There are a lot of factors that should be reviewed, and continually reassessed.
Assuming the same result will always apply is not critical thinking.
The probability of throwing a seven with a pair of dice does not change with the last throw, and the possibility of getting cat's eyes is always the same. And that's when you know the odds.
Last year a bridge was our near me ...
And everytime there ever has been a bridge out, there's big orange constructions signs with flashing lights that say: "BRIDGE OUT AHEAD".
... but it was out because of an accident that had just occurred, and there were no signs. This occurs about once a year here.
The other way to the other side is somewhat longer, but going back to it is a considerably longer trip. If one ABSOLUTELY HAD to be at their destination by a specific time the prudent course is to avoid the bridge.
Critical thinking would mean assessing the results of error in judgement as well as assumed likelihoods of success, and if a perceived blockage\error would be fatal to the mission where another path would yield positive results, then you go with the known positive.
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-24-2014 3:07 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(2)
Message 230 of 339 (722884)
03-25-2014 4:57 PM


You guys are wayyyyyy over thinking this critical thinking bit.
Critical thinking is being critical of your thinking.
Not just willy-nilly choosing something, but actually being critical of each and every aspect of the decision making process.
All critical thinking is not created equal as the critic could be a imbecile.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

Replies to this message:
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 Message 235 by Coyote, posted 03-26-2014 12:32 AM 1.61803 has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 231 of 339 (722890)
03-25-2014 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by RAZD
03-25-2014 4:45 PM


The other way to the other side is somewhat longer, but going back to it is a considerably longer trip. If one ABSOLUTELY HAD to be at their destination by a specific time the prudent course is to avoid the bridge.
The fastest and most direct route to the airport from where I used to live was to go over the northern bridge on highway I-270. But there is only that one bridge and you have no other options to get across the river. So, because you only get one shot to catch your flight, we would always take the longer route down south across I-70. That way, if there's a wreck on the bridge (which happens occasionally on any of the bridges) then you can get off the highway and drive up to the McKinley bridge and get across the river that way. We took the longer route every time just to avoid getting stuck in traffic on I-270, because of a wreck on the bridge, and ending up missing our flight. You just never know, and its better to be safe than sorry.
Here's an image:
The I-270 bridge is at the very top and the I-70 bridge is at the bottom, and McKinley bridge is in between. I used to live straight to the right from where it says Chain of Rocks Canal. It was worth taking the longer route just in case there'd be a wreck on the I-270 bridge because if there was then traffic could get backed up for hours and you might miss your flight. Its better to have an option for another bridge even though the chances of a wreck are fairly low and you're making the trip longer than it has to be.

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 Message 229 by RAZD, posted 03-25-2014 4:45 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Taq, posted 03-26-2014 4:55 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 232 of 339 (722905)
03-25-2014 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Tangle
03-24-2014 11:33 AM


This is not about my opinion, nor my world view - it's a general principle that applies to all people everywhere.
In your opinion based on your worldview.
To apply any other logic to these situations would be irrational and to deny that we can know things about the world.
Always assuming that what happened yesterday will happen again today will always fail on the day it is not the same no matter how infrequently it occurs.
Failing to recognize that is not critical thinking but dogmatic thinking.
Critical thinking also assesses the risks for when it fails.
The sillyness ends here; for me at least.
Glad to see that you will be stopping it then.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Tangle, posted 03-24-2014 11:33 AM Tangle has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 233 of 339 (722915)
03-25-2014 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 230 by 1.61803
03-25-2014 4:57 PM


You guys are wayyyyyy over thinking this critical thinking bit.
Maybe we just like to argue and don't have anything better to do.
Think about it, critically

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by 1.61803, posted 03-25-2014 4:57 PM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 234 of 339 (722926)
03-25-2014 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by New Cat's Eye
03-25-2014 4:42 PM


Re: 2 more cents
CS writes:
Are there mountain lions in Illinois?
Dunno, I live in Southern England.
You really think that a coin flip is a critically thinking an answer to the question?
Why not: "I don't know."?
The coin flip was a metaphor for "i don't know" nothing wrong with "I don't know" so long as you've arrived at that conclusion by thinking about it rationally.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-25-2014 4:42 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 235 of 339 (723030)
03-26-2014 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 230 by 1.61803
03-25-2014 4:57 PM


You guys are wayyyyyy over thinking this critical thinking bit.
Critical thinking is being critical of your thinking.
Not just willy-nilly choosing something, but actually being critical of each and every aspect of the decision making process.
All critical thinking is not created equal as the critic could be a imbecile.
Agreed.
And as the old quote says, "Logic is an organized way of going wrong with confidence." This is known as Ketterings Law, after Charles F. Kettering.
The problem with logic is that it has no common sense. Faith uses logic to reach conclusions absolutely contradicted by the evidence. RAZD uses logic in an attempt to bludgeon the ideas of others into submission, and to hold out that faint smidgeon of hope that deities exist.
I would suggest that critical thinking would have a large helping of common sense, realizing that common sense is far from common, and that logic, when taken to extremes, can become counterproductive.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 230 by 1.61803, posted 03-25-2014 4:57 PM 1.61803 has replied

Replies to this message:
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 236 of 339 (723057)
03-26-2014 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Coyote
03-26-2014 12:32 AM


Coyote writes:
I would suggest that critical thinking would have a large helping of common sense, realizing that common sense is far from common, and that logic, when taken to extremes, can become counterproductive.
Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Coyote, posted 03-26-2014 12:32 AM Coyote has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 237 of 339 (723075)
03-26-2014 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by New Cat's Eye
03-25-2014 4:42 PM


Re: 2 more cents
Catholic Scientist writes:
Are there mountain lions in Illinois?
Honest question, I'd like to know.
Yes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-25-2014 4:42 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-26-2014 12:44 PM ringo has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 238 of 339 (723077)
03-26-2014 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by ringo
03-26-2014 12:34 PM


Re: 2 more cents
Catholic Scientist writes:
Are there mountain lions in Illinois?
Honest question, I'd like to know.
Yes.
Are they just "passing through", or should they be identified as a native species by the DNR?
It has ramifications for how people should deal with them. They're not recognized as a native species by the DNR, so if there's one on your property I think you can just shoot it. But if they really are native, then I don't think people should be shooting them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by ringo, posted 03-26-2014 12:34 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by ringo, posted 03-26-2014 12:51 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 239 of 339 (723080)
03-26-2014 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by New Cat's Eye
03-26-2014 12:44 PM


Re: 2 more cents
Catholic Scientist writes:
Are they just "passing through", or should they be identified as a native species by the DNR?
What their intentions are or what our intentions should be have nothing to do with thinking critically about whether or not they exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-26-2014 12:44 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 240 of 339 (723112)
03-26-2014 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by New Cat's Eye
03-25-2014 5:07 PM


The fastest and most direct route to the airport . . .
You have already failed to use critical thinking. You think you know ahead of time that the airport is still in the same place. How do you know that it hasn't been magically poofed into a new location by Leprechauns?
Even more, you think you know that an internal combustion engine will continue working under the same laws of physics it always has. For all you know, the laws of chemistry has changed and the fuel in your gas tank now has the same flammability as water.
I think you can begin to see just how silly your criticisms are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-25-2014 5:07 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 241 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-26-2014 4:59 PM Taq has replied

  
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