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Author Topic:   What Does Critical Thinking Mean To You?
Phat
Member
Posts: 14587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 301 of 339 (745058)
12-18-2014 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Jon
12-17-2014 12:20 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix

Seems the bridge(between Minnesota & S.Dakota) is indeed there. Good thing I prayed before finding out the hard way.

Our arguments are often circular here at EvC. May as well sit back and enjoy the coffee rather than spilling it trying to prove a point.


Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo

It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo

If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God — only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Jon, posted 12-17-2014 12:20 PM Jon has responded

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 302 of 339 (745059)
12-18-2014 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by RAZD
12-18-2014 1:36 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix Again -- what is wrong with saying "I don't know" ???
In the first stage I not only lack belief in the bridge being there (or not being there), but I lack certainty about the condition of the bridge's existence, so I just don't know if the bridge is there or not.

Certainty is not required before forming an opinion.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by RAZD, posted 12-18-2014 1:36 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 28 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 303 of 339 (745061)
12-18-2014 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by NoNukes
12-18-2014 3:26 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix Again -- what is wrong with saying "I don't know" ???
In the first stage I not only lack belief in the bridge being there (or not being there), but I lack certainty about the condition of the bridge's existence, so I just don't know if the bridge is there or not.

Certainty is not required before forming an opinion.

Agreed, nothing prevents people from having whatever opinion they like ...

... but is that critical thinking or wishful thinking?

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by NoNukes, posted 12-18-2014 3:26 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Jon, posted 12-18-2014 7:28 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 315 by NoNukes, posted 12-29-2014 11:29 AM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 28 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 304 of 339 (745063)
12-18-2014 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by jar
12-18-2014 11:46 AM


Critical Thinking Remix -- backup ... what?
Well then it's a damn good thing I never made such a claim.

Perhaps that is why I clarified my observation. You know, the part you omitted from the quote ...

So you are saying that you believe the bridge is there, but that you are likely wrong about the shape, color and construction style of the bridge ... which seems a bit nit-picky imho ...

Does this help?

Would you not agree that if you do not know if the bridge exists, that any discussion of shape, color or construction would be opinion unbased on evidence?

Learn to read.

Curiously I see this statement to many replies here, and I suggest that perhaps the original statement was not clear ...

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : ..


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by jar, posted 12-18-2014 11:46 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by jar, posted 12-18-2014 5:25 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 305 of 339 (745067)
12-18-2014 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by Phat
12-18-2014 3:12 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix
Yeah; Big Stone is one of the few reliable crossing points.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Phat, posted 12-18-2014 3:12 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32911
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 306 of 339 (745070)
12-18-2014 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by RAZD
12-18-2014 4:15 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- backup ... what?
But what did I omit from the quote?

I have said all along that what one believes about a God is almost certainly wrong.

I am saying that what we say about God or god is almost certainly wrong.

I went on to clarify that by pointing out that so far all the gods or Gods we can test have been shown to be wrong.

If that is not talking about aspects of gods or descriptions of gods I'm not at all sure how to make it clearer.

RAZD writes:

So you are saying that you believe the bridge is there, but that you are likely wrong about the shape, color and construction style of the bridge ... which seems a bit nit-picky imho ...

Perhaps it is nit-picky but it is what wars and oppression have often been based upon.

RAZD writes:

Would you not agree that if you do not know if the bridge exists, that any discussion of shape, color or construction would be opinion unbased on evidence?

Which is why if you look back I specifically pointed out the difference between the bridge analogy and the concept of a deity. I then went on to present the evidence that is available, the fact that every god that has been tested has been shown to be false.

So my opinion that any God or god that we can describe beyond the very basics is likely wrong seems to be supported.

Yet there are still killings in the name of some god, bigotry and oppression in the name of some god going on even in the US.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 307 of 339 (745076)
12-18-2014 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 303 by RAZD
12-18-2014 4:02 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix Again -- what is wrong with saying "I don't know" ???
Are those really the only options?

Love your enemies!

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 Message 303 by RAZD, posted 12-18-2014 4:02 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 308 of 339 (745828)
12-28-2014 7:13 AM
Reply to: Message 306 by jar
12-18-2014 5:25 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- backup ... what?
I have said all along that what one believes about a God is almost certainly wrong.

I am saying that what we say about God or god is almost certainly wrong.

I went on to clarify that by pointing out that so far all the gods or Gods we can test have been shown to be wrong.

Your theory is only correct if God does not in some way interact with humanity. God is not merely some unknowable Being whom we "test" in regards to our reactions concerning said concept. God is alive.


Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo

It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo

If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God — only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by jar, posted 12-18-2014 5:25 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by jar, posted 12-28-2014 8:46 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 310 by ringo, posted 12-28-2014 1:40 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32911
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 309 of 339 (745829)
12-28-2014 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 308 by Phat
12-28-2014 7:13 AM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- backup ... what?
Phat writes:

Your theory is only correct if God does not in some way interact with humanity. God is not merely some unknowable Being whom we "test" in regards to our reactions concerning said concept. God is alive.

What does that even mean?

AbE:

What how is it even related to anything I said and you even quoted?

How is your post evidence of critical thinking or was it meant as an example of not using critical thinking?

Edited by TrueChristian, : see AbE:


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by Phat, posted 12-28-2014 7:13 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18753
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 310 of 339 (745851)
12-28-2014 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 308 by Phat
12-28-2014 7:13 AM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- backup ... what?
Phat writes:

God is not merely some unknowable Being whom we "test" in regards to our reactions concerning said concept.


He is if we think critically about Him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by Phat, posted 12-28-2014 7:13 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 311 by Phat, posted 12-29-2014 7:48 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 311 of 339 (745900)
12-29-2014 7:48 AM
Reply to: Message 310 by ringo
12-28-2014 1:40 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- backup ... what?
Perhaps when He smites some of us it is Him using critical thinking on us. Perhaps natural selection is similar to random smiting.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo

It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo

If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God — only that God is not wooden. (Leo Tolstoy)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by ringo, posted 12-28-2014 1:40 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by Theodoric, posted 12-29-2014 10:58 AM Phat has responded
 Message 313 by ringo, posted 12-29-2014 11:05 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 312 of 339 (745915)
12-29-2014 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 311 by Phat
12-29-2014 7:48 AM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- backup ... what?
When was the last time you saw someone smote by a supernatural being? I think reality is progressively slipping from your grasp.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 311 by Phat, posted 12-29-2014 7:48 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 18753
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 313 of 339 (745919)
12-29-2014 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 311 by Phat
12-29-2014 7:48 AM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- backup ... what?
Phat writes:

Perhaps when He smites some of us it is Him using critical thinking on us.


If God is omniscient, why would He need critical thinking?

Phat writes:

Perhaps natural selection is similar to random smiting.


I think most people here will agree that the smiting is pretty much random. True Christians™ seem to get smitten along with the rest of us. But of course that gives them a chance to play the martyr card.

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 32911
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


(3)
Message 314 of 339 (745920)
12-29-2014 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 313 by ringo
12-29-2014 11:05 AM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix -- backup ... what?
ringo writes:

True Christians™ seem to get smitten along with the rest of us.

I remember getting smittened (smoted? ) once by this little red headed girl. I was smoted so hard I joined the Royal Ambassadors acause they said I'd get hands on experience of spiritual growth but she jess said "Hands off" and that my growth was far from spiritual.

Edited by TrueChristian, : appalin spallin


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by ringo, posted 12-29-2014 11:05 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 315 of 339 (745921)
12-29-2014 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 303 by RAZD
12-18-2014 4:02 PM


Re: Critical Thinking Remix Again -- what is wrong with saying "I don't know" ???
Agreed, nothing prevents people from having whatever opinion they like...

... but is that critical thinking or wishful thinking?

Life requires that we act without complete information. When we are short of certainty, one logical approach is to access the probabilities and consequences for being right or wrong and to act even in the face of uncertainty. If critical thinking is in opposition to that thought process then critical thinking is useless. We form an opinion that man is an evolved primate and we teach such things to children without being 100 per cent certain. We plan to drive to work crossing that bridge tomorrow and we are not 100 per cent sure our car is going to start.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by RAZD, posted 12-18-2014 4:02 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
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