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Author | Topic: What Does Critical Thinking Mean To You? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Faith writes: Since paralyzed wakefulness involves the sub-conscious, the subjects underlying beliefs will factor large in how they respond to the paralysis. As a new believer, I would have immediately concluded that a demon had me in its grip. I also would have concluded that Jesus set me free. I still believe these things to be true, but I wont argue against critically allowing for other possibilities. (Praise Jesus!)
Years after the experiences I described I was visiting a charismatic Christian commune and woke up in the middle of the night with the sensation of an evil presence gripping my throat and trying to strangle me. I thought the words "I'm covered by the blood of Jesus" and it went away.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
You answered your own question: Consensus decides what is valid. Consensus is a requirement for objectivity (although consensus doesn't necessarily indicate objectivity). If there was any consensus about a delusion it wouldn't be a delusion.
One mans validity is another mans delusion.How do we arrive at consensus on what is valid?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Its a broad term, it covers a lot of different stuff. Not all of them make you an abnormal person.
quote: Psychosis - Wikipedia
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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Seems to me the confirmation bias is very often on the side of the debunkers. They DON'T want to believe in the reality of these things, they NEED to believe that the mind does it all, that it's a hallucination or a psychosis, it freaks them out to think things aren't quite as "science" tells them they are. The clue is the kneejerk certainty. It takes some real critical thought to sort some of this stuff out.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I don't think anybody is seriously defining belief as a psychosis. There may well be a correlation between the two though.
the definition of belief as a psychosis.
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
RAZD writes: I believe that the earth is far older. My friends who are Pastors usually disagree with me...but since we cannot find consensus, we dont argue about it very much. They have faith stemming from the Bible (as taught literally) whereas my faith sprung from subjective experiences...I think.
Indeed the definition of delusion is believing something in spite of contradictory information. An example is believing that the earth is younger than 10 or 12 thousand years old -- there is massive evidence that contradicts this belief.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Critical thinking is the exact opposite of kneejerk certainty. Critical thinking means deliberately deciding what every move of your knee should be - and after you've moved it wondering if you got it wrong. The clue is the kneejerk certainty. If you could ever admit that the Bible might be wrong, your knee might not jerk so much.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Faith writes: Seems to me the confirmation bias is very often on the side of the debunkers. They DON'T want to believe in the reality of these things, they NEED to believe that the mind does it all, that it's a hallucination or a psychosis, it freaks them out to think things aren't quite as "science" tells them they are. The clue is the kneejerk certainty. It takes some real critical thought to sort some of this stuff out. You're quite right, we don't want to believe these things - we want them evidenced and then we can accept them. You have absolutely no evidence that the stuff you're talking about is anything other than psychological. And I have to say, the more you talk about it, the more convinced I am. I worked in a mental hospital for a few months, once you've seen that, you know what a mess a brain disorder can make of what you think is reality. (I met two Jesus Christs there btw)Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Critical thinking is the exact opposite of kneejerk certainty. Which was my point. That it's the debunkers like you who have the kneejerk certainty.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Sounds to me like you have a serious inability to think critically, meaning an inability to distinguish between mental illness and experiences of real spirits. People believing they are Jesus Christ is a mental illness. Nothing anyone has described here is in such a category. And yes you believe what you WANT to believe, regardless of the actual evidence.
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Taq Member Posts: 10073 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Seems to me the confirmation bias is very often on the side of the debunkers. They DON'T want to believe in the reality of these things, they NEED to believe that the mind does it all, that it's a hallucination or a psychosis, it freaks them out to think things aren't quite as "science" tells them they are. The clue is the kneejerk certainty. It takes some real critical thought to sort some of this stuff out. Our whole point is that you only show us belief. You never show us evidence, logic, reasoning, or critical thinking.
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Taq Member Posts: 10073 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Sounds to me like you have a serious inability to think critically, meaning an inability to distinguish between mental illness and experiences of real spirits. So how do you use critical thinking to differentiate between mental illness and real spirits? Show us how it is done. What tests do you use? How do you know those tests are accurate?
And yes you believe what you WANT to believe, regardless of the actual evidence. That is called psychological projection. You are projecting your own dogmatism onto others.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
I suggest that it interfered with critical thinking. Despite your best efforts, you do not have the ability to reject all of the garbage and all of the diamonds. Which is why you are skeptical even when tested, looking to hone or tune the result/s with further testing.
And a subjective opinion may be the best you can do and that result might still be wrong. So it interferes, sometimes fatally with critical thinking reaching only valid results. Which is why you are skeptical even when tested, looking to hone or tune the result/s with further testing. Keeping an open mind you can (and most likely necessarily do) consider this to be the best approximation to {reality} you can reasonably obtain at this time, yet it is subject to change. The interference imho comes not so much from considering them, but in resistance to revision when more information suggests it. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
And you are wrong about that, and unable to recognize how your own opinions rest on bias and belief.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I guess we could tit for tat each other forever -- no you're the one projecting, no you are -- but what would be the point?. I believe the criteria for differentiating the demonic from the mental illness is quite clear in the descriptions themselves, and your inability to see it doesn't bode well for any effort I might put into trying to demonstrate it beyond that.
(I might suggest, however, that the demonic could very easily be involved in any kind of delusion, such as that one is Jesus Christ.) Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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