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Author Topic:   Big Bang Found
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8552
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 1 of 301 (722240)
03-18-2014 9:21 AM


NEWSER) – A dizzying scientific achievement: Astronomers have gotten a look back at what one scientist calls "the beginning of time ... the universe at the very beginning." That is, they've detected gravitational waves that could be the first direct evidence that within a fraction of a trillionth of a second after the Big Bang, the cosmos began to, in the New York Times' description, "swell faster than the speed of light for a prodigiously violent instant." Such an event (dubbed "inflation") was theorized in 1979 by physicist Alan Guth, but finding evidence of it "has been a key goal in the study of the universe," the AP reports. The findings must still be confirmed by other experiments, though the lead astronomer says there's only a one in 3.5 million chance the team's results are a fluke

http://www.newser.com/...ts-make-key-big-bang-discovery.html

It's another Higgs Boson moment - science predicts that a thing must exist for a theory to be correct, then the thing is found and everyone slaps themselves on the back.

Now others go away and check that the original discoverers got it right and creationists have to make up a whole new pile of anti-science to make it fit their model(s).

Gravitational waves trigger ripples in space, seen in this illustration.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Edited by Admin, : Minor grammar fix.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Edited by Tangle, : Picture added


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 03-18-2014 3:32 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 7 by Dogmafood, posted 03-19-2014 9:15 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 8 by Diomedes, posted 03-19-2014 9:17 AM Tangle has taken no action
 Message 11 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-19-2014 11:46 AM Tangle has taken no action
 Message 15 by shadow71, posted 03-20-2014 11:51 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 22 by Phat, posted 03-20-2014 2:30 PM Tangle has taken no action
 Message 281 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 12:20 AM Tangle has taken no action
 Message 292 by djufo, posted 10-02-2014 8:17 PM Tangle has taken no action
 Message 294 by Arkangel Daniel, posted 11-20-2018 4:21 AM Tangle has taken no action

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8552
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 3 of 301 (722242)
03-18-2014 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
03-18-2014 3:32 PM


Done, but not sure why it matters........

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 03-18-2014 3:32 PM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 03-18-2014 4:08 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8552
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 5 of 301 (722244)
03-18-2014 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
03-18-2014 4:08 PM


Done again, now that I understand what you were (quite reasonably) objecting to.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 03-18-2014 4:08 PM Admin has seen this message

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8552
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 10 of 301 (722257)
03-19-2014 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Dogmafood
03-19-2014 9:15 AM


I am not really a big news junkie so I am sure that there is lots of stuff that I miss but there is something wrong when the greatest discovery in the history of science comes and goes with barely a whimper in the world's press. I had to go looking for the story in my google news aggregator. Do we really live in a world where the shape of Kim Kardashian's ass is more interesting than the shape of the universe?

It's very big news here, it's regarded as one of the most important discoveries ever made.

Good article here:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...nflation-science-space#


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Dogmafood, posted 03-19-2014 9:15 AM Dogmafood has seen this message

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8552
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 28 of 301 (722395)
03-20-2014 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by shadow71
03-20-2014 11:51 AM


Shadow71 writes:

Not sure why you conclude "creationists" etc.

I believe in creation and this finding supports the fact that the universe had a beginning, and thus there was some sort of creation.

If it helps, my original post named Faith as the person who would now have to go and invent something sciency sounding to get round the problem. So blame Admin for any ambiguity.

But really, there shouldn't be any....


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by shadow71, posted 03-20-2014 11:51 AM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by RAZD, posted 03-21-2014 8:24 AM Tangle has taken no action
 Message 37 by shadow71, posted 03-21-2014 12:31 PM Tangle has taken no action

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8552
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 33 of 301 (722423)
03-21-2014 2:59 AM


The Institution for Creationism are denying the news quoting Isaiah.

So what did cause the CMB? That's an open question. But since the CMB data are generally inconsistent with inflation (a fact quickly glossed over in Monday's announcement), it is definitely not "leftover" radiation from an alleged Big Bang. Secular scientists have made many such splashy announcements over the years, announcements which have supposedly proven various aspects of their evolutionary worldview but which have eventually been rejected (often quietly) by evolutionists themselves. This is not the first such announcement, nor will it be the last. Readers should resist the temptation to embrace these ever-changing secular origin stories. The inerrant, inspired, true creation account never changes, however: "The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever" (Isaiah 40:8).

They're missing a trick, Orthodox Jewish scientists are claiming that it proves their beliefs to be true.

For believing Jews, the story of the Big Bang resonates perfectly with the story of creation told in Genesis, Aviezer said. “Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Genesis story perfectly. If I had to make up a theory to match the first passages in Genesis, the Big Bang theory would be it,” said Aviezer.

Read more: New Big Bang evidence supports Biblical creation, says Orthodox physicist | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/...ion-is-a-fact/#ixzz2wZsi1VKq


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by kbertsche, posted 03-21-2014 12:49 PM Tangle has taken no action

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8552
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 53 of 301 (722716)
03-24-2014 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by shadow71
03-24-2014 12:36 PM


Re: You haven't said much here...
Shaddow71 writes:

It does not seem logical that there would be a spontaneous formation out of nothing w/o some moving force

There's nothing logical about this - you leave logic and common sense at the door when you enter this argument.

All the matter in the universe was created in a trillion of a second and expanded to the size of an orange faster than the speed of light?? And expanded into what??? It created time...what????

Edited by Tangle, : Fixed quote cock-up


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by shadow71, posted 03-24-2014 12:36 PM shadow71 has taken no action

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8552
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 56 of 301 (722739)
03-24-2014 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by shadow71
03-24-2014 3:28 PM


Re: You haven't said much here...
Shaddow71 writes:

Here there is no real basis for a spontaneous cause of the universe, but a universe created out of nothing by a supernatural being is plausible.

Says you. Stephen Hawking disagrees and so do I.

Now what?


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by shadow71, posted 03-24-2014 3:28 PM shadow71 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by shadow71, posted 03-24-2014 4:48 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8552
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 62 of 301 (722749)
03-24-2014 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by shadow71
03-24-2014 4:48 PM


Re: You haven't said much here...
Shadow71 writes:

The next step would be for you to tell us how something was created out of nothing.

For that, you'll have to learn some physics. It's well above my pay grade. Hawking:

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," he writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by shadow71, posted 03-24-2014 4:48 PM shadow71 has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by kbertsche, posted 03-24-2014 7:28 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8552
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 68 of 301 (722781)
03-25-2014 3:28 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by kbertsche
03-24-2014 7:28 PM


Re: You haven't said much here...
kbertshe writes:

But this is not a physics question; it is a philosophy question. And Hawking, like Dawkins, has rejected philsophy as a valid field of knowledge. So he is not equipped to answer the question.

Philosophy has failed to answer the question of why there's something rather than nothing for thousands of years - all it could do was insert a thing that had previously been called God when it couldn't deduce further. (Gods all the way down?)

Now science is having a go at it. But I'm not convinced science is answering exactly the same question - is a quantum vacuum the same as a philosopher's nothing? Is gravity God? Buggered if I know.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by kbertsche, posted 03-24-2014 7:28 PM kbertsche has taken no action

  
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