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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 598 of 1309 (740526)
11-05-2014 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 595 by Dr Adequate
11-05-2014 1:41 PM


Re: Second Thoughts
Firstly I think that it is important to recognise that religious non-profits have broad exemptions to anti-discrimination policies. There is no danger of a church minister being forced by the government to hold a gay wedding in his capacity as a minister, unless he starts a for-profit business of holding weddings.
But what needs to be avoided is the situation where minorities who face discrimination are unable to obtain important services. Is it really practical for the courts to be forced to consider whether alternatives are available ? Can those guilty of discrimination get away with it if they can plead that they didn't know that there were no other options for their customers ? Is it just that the law should be more restrictive in situations where there are fewer providers of a service ?
And from the other side, do we want the courts settling religious questions ? Do we want courts to decide that a religious belief - or even a religion - is not genuine and shouldn't be protected ? Doesn't this raise the spectre of government discrimination against unpopular religions ?
That is not to say that the current laws in the U.S. are ideal, but they aren't obviously wrong either. They're definitely better than giving wholesale freedom to discriminate so long as it's claimed to be religious. And quite possibly better in practice than more complex laws that seem better in principle.
It's not an easy problem, and not easy to find something definitely better than the current situation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 595 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-05-2014 1:41 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 599 of 1309 (740528)
11-05-2014 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 597 by Faith
11-05-2014 3:00 PM


Re: I Re: Second Thoughts
quote:
I really don't see why it should be so hard to tell the difference between religious freedom and discrimination on the basis of race etc. Discriminating against persons is rightly disallowed by law, but that is not what is going on in the case of businesses being asked to support an IDEA such as gay marriage or Catholicism as the Whore of Babylon.
Or the idea that Blacks and Whites should be allowed to mingle and even marry ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 597 by Faith, posted 11-05-2014 3:00 PM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 625 of 1309 (740586)
11-06-2014 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 622 by Faith
11-06-2014 12:22 AM


Re: Delusions of Persecution and all that
Some pretty clear exaggeration there. An overbroad subpoena to gather evidence to defend against a lawsuit seems a long way from government control of churches.
And a drop in readership is not sufficient evidence that anyone is cutting off viewers to your blog. How could they ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 622 by Faith, posted 11-06-2014 12:22 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 626 by Faith, posted 11-06-2014 1:37 AM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 628 of 1309 (740589)
11-06-2014 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 626 by Faith
11-06-2014 1:37 AM


Re: Delusions of Persecution and all that
It hasn't started, though. And it doesn't seem likely to start.
And the statistics matter far less than the reason behind your statistics. If you have made ANY effort to investigate the cause you haven't mentioned it. You simply jumped to an implausible assumption of censorship.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 626 by Faith, posted 11-06-2014 1:37 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 629 by Faith, posted 11-06-2014 7:49 AM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 630 of 1309 (740592)
11-06-2014 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 629 by Faith
11-06-2014 7:49 AM


Re: Delusions of Persecution and all that
If you know any regular readers, you could ask them if they' em read your blog lately and if they haven't you can find out why.
If you think that your blog is being blocked you could just try to read it yourself. If you think that there is a block that you can bypass get a friend to do it, or use public internet or a cyber cafe.
i can't think of any reason why you would get a significant number of referrals from search engines.
But it is not at all likely that you are being censored. I know that your post must have been really disgusting if you thought it was bad. Maybe it drove your readers away. That's a lot more likely than censorship targeting you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 629 by Faith, posted 11-06-2014 7:49 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 631 by Faith, posted 11-06-2014 8:28 AM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 632 of 1309 (740594)
11-06-2014 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 631 by Faith
11-06-2014 8:28 AM


Re: Delusions of Persecution and all that
You really think that people who have decided to stop reading your blog will come back as soon as you put up a new post? That's silly.
quote:
The reason I get readers off the search engines has to do with topic. People search on a topic I've posted on and my blog comes up, often at the top of the Google page if my title or key words are well chosen. I also believe I have a unique point of view on some of the topics.
I doubt that's really the case. And of course you are free to check the search engines as well. I'll bet that you get the same results but I'd be very surprised if many other people did. If they did you'd have a lot more readers than you do (and not just from search engines).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 631 by Faith, posted 11-06-2014 8:28 AM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 650 of 1309 (740683)
11-06-2014 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 648 by Faith
11-06-2014 4:58 PM


That's good. You should listen to sane people more often instead of hurling abuse at them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 648 by Faith, posted 11-06-2014 4:58 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 651 by Faith, posted 11-06-2014 7:33 PM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 654 of 1309 (740721)
11-07-2014 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 651 by Faith
11-06-2014 7:33 PM


quote:
Lots of abuse was hurled on this topic, no question there, but not by me.
I think you mean "almost entirely" by you. For example:
Message 37
Message 39
Message 52
Message 205
Message 253
And while I stopped looking after that, let us not forget the recent
Message 635

This message is a reply to:
 Message 651 by Faith, posted 11-06-2014 7:33 PM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 663 of 1309 (740778)
11-07-2014 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 661 by Faith
11-07-2014 1:23 PM


quote:
For PaulK: This is an example of an abusive post and it's not mine.
And it's not as bad as any of the examples that I listed.
Point to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 661 by Faith, posted 11-07-2014 1:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 664 by Faith, posted 11-07-2014 1:46 PM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 671 of 1309 (740787)
11-07-2014 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 668 by Faith
11-07-2014 1:52 PM


Justice and liberty triumphing over hate, lies and tyranny.
You know that you keep losing in the courts because you don't have any good arguments AGAINST gay marriage ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 668 by Faith, posted 11-07-2014 1:52 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 674 by Faith, posted 11-07-2014 1:59 PM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 677 of 1309 (740796)
11-07-2014 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 674 by Faith
11-07-2014 1:59 PM


quote:
Proof that the courts are blind and perverse.
In other words, you think that the courts shouldn't be about the law or justice. The merits of the arguments raised should have no part in their decision. They should just come to whatever conclusion you want.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 674 by Faith, posted 11-07-2014 1:59 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 689 by Faith, posted 11-07-2014 2:33 PM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 688 of 1309 (740809)
11-07-2014 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 681 by Faith
11-07-2014 2:13 PM


quote:
It's picked up enormously just in the last few months, that's why I think it will probably come together in a fairly short time, within months or a year. But I would never bet on such timing.
The American Right's slide into extremism, and insistence on ideology over truth is certainly worrying.
quote:
You all don't see the signs because you think they are all good things, progressive and so on. The Houston subpoenas on top of the gay marriage attacks on Christian businesses are unprecedented and all happening within the last year or so.
I don't think that anyone supports the Houston subpoenas, although when the facts are examined they aren't anywhere near as bad as you claimed. To put it simply, defence is not attack.
The claims of "attacks" on Christian businesses are also dubious. In my mind not least because the Christian businesses could escape by following a scripture that you cited !
quote:
There is also increasing anti-Semitism, thanks mostly to Islam
Now that's an over-simplification. Mainly among Muslims, maybe - but not because of Islam. But you might note that your opponents here are neither Muslims nor anti-semites. Nor do we think that anti-semitism is good or progressive.
quote:
Just about everything you think is a good progressive thing is a sign of coming disaster to me.
But that's because you're on the side of evil.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 681 by Faith, posted 11-07-2014 2:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 690 by Faith, posted 11-07-2014 2:35 PM PaulK has replied
 Message 691 by Faith, posted 11-07-2014 2:38 PM PaulK has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 692 of 1309 (740813)
11-07-2014 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 689 by Faith
11-07-2014 2:33 PM


SANE ADVICE IN THIS POST !!!
Yawn. Just more of your usual attempts to invert reality. Your inability to fairly evaluate arguments has been demonstrated time and again.
Here's some sane advice. Assuming that the truth is what you want it to be - without bothering to get the facts right and understand the reality - will almost always lead you into error. Try and remember that and act on it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 689 by Faith, posted 11-07-2014 2:33 PM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 693 of 1309 (740814)
11-07-2014 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 690 by Faith
11-07-2014 2:35 PM


What about the Klinghoffer opera ? I don't know much about it so I neither support or condemn it. I doubt that you know much more.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 690 by Faith, posted 11-07-2014 2:35 PM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 710 of 1309 (740840)
11-07-2014 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 664 by Faith
11-07-2014 1:46 PM


quote:
Yes, I would point to you too, as you say similarly abusive things without owning that they are abusive.
In other words I am neither as abusive nor as dishonest as you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 664 by Faith, posted 11-07-2014 1:46 PM Faith has not replied

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