Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,432 Year: 3,689/9,624 Month: 560/974 Week: 173/276 Day: 13/34 Hour: 0/6


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
vimesey
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(7)
Message 942 of 1309 (741845)
11-15-2014 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 938 by Faith
11-14-2014 10:03 PM


sex means male and female, not a sexual perversion.
That is your opinion (although to be frank, you're stretching the English language not to call it sex).
In just the same way, it could be my opinion and those of others that your religion is not true Christianity, but a perversion of it.
However, so far as your faith doesn't harm anyone, any such opinion would be irrelevant. As it happens, I defend your right to that faith, however much I disagree with some of your conclusions.
Where I do draw a line, is where any faith causes harm to someone - and we have learnt, as a society, that discrimination causes harm to people. So we pass laws which prevent discrimination. Not because we want to attack your faith, but because peoples' opinions shouldn't be exercised in such a way as to harm others.
You can argue that the laws can harm you, because they prevent you acting in accordance with you conscience, and that can be seen as harmful. Fair enough, but in these circumstances, we balance that harm to you against the harm caused by discrimination - and discrimination wins.
I could have no greater respect for someone, than I would have for a fundamentalist Christian, who said to a gay couple, with a smile on his or her face, "you know what, I don't agree with what you do, and I think it's contrary to God's law, but I know you guys love each other, so knock yourselves out - get yourselves married, be happy and fulfilled and I'll bake you your cake, you great heathens !" That would be true love for your fellow man.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 938 by Faith, posted 11-14-2014 10:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 943 by Faith, posted 11-15-2014 8:18 AM vimesey has replied

vimesey
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 1101 of 1309 (742116)
11-17-2014 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 943 by Faith
11-15-2014 8:18 AM


Hi Faith - sorry it's taken me a while to respond. Real life intervenes, and I see there's a lot of water under the bridge, but I still want to reply.
Just out of curiosity, what should be done with those of us who will go on saying that homosexuality is a sin that will be punished by God if the person doesn't repent and turn to Christ, and that gay marriage is a violation of God's laws that can only bring His judgment against a nation? Or any form of preaching the gospel of Christ and Biblical truth in the public square for that matter. According to your way of construing all this will we continue to have that right or be punished for it?
You have the right to express your views and faith in public. I don't know how this works in the States, but there are some broad limits in England - you're prohibited from harassment, and from inciting hatred, based on someone's sexuality - but that does not prohibit a fair, public expression of your faith or opinions. And I would protest if it did.
(However, you should expect counter-rhetoric, and some level of opposition on the ground, from other members of the public who hold different views to yours).
The expression of a point of view (if it isn't so extreme in its nature of delivery, as to constitute harassment, or so extreme in its expression as to constitute an incitement to hatred), is not seen as causing harm to anyone. It's the discrimination against people, which causes the harm - treating people as less than others - as less worthy - as inferior. Preaching that someone is a sinner and should repent, if they want to be saved by your interpretation of God, is something I support you being able to do. I oppose your message very strongly, but I support your ability to express it just as strongly.
And by the way, it isn't just my opinion, "Sex" always meant male and female. It's been replaced by the wrong term "gender" which may be the cause of the confusion. It means male and female, period, it has nothing to do with the subjective stuff concerning sexuality.
I'm not too sure what you're aiming at here, but when I talked about stretching the English language not to call gay sex, sex, I was referring to your statement:
sex means male and female, not a sexual perversion.
Regardless of the origin of the usage, the word sex is now definitely capable of being used accurately to refer to what two or more people get up to with their genitals. I'm not sure the etymology of the usage adds much to the debate.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 943 by Faith, posted 11-15-2014 8:18 AM Faith has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024