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Author | Topic: Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Calling those who have a legitimate basis for opposing gay marriage on the basis of the Bible or on historical facts, "haters" and "homophobes" and "bigots" which is standard operating procedure at EvC, and on the Left in general, is propaganda of the lowest sort, sticking an opprobrious label on a person to discredit the argument. You exposed your hypocrisy to me, explicitly, in this thread. See Message 309 onward. The fact that you wouldn't oppose making a cake for my anti-christian Catholic wedding, but you would for a gay couple, shows that its the fact that they are gay that you have a problem with. Basing your position on just their gayness is, in fact, bigotry. Homophobic bigotry to be exact.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I am not going to go back and read whatever you linked, it's clear from what you said here that there's no hypocrisy, just the usual inability to understand the issue. I'm sure I already answered it but I don't care. The answer is that gay marriage violates God's ordinance, heterosexual marriage of any kind at all does not. I'd also make a cake for a Hindu wedding or a civil wedding. The point is that heterosexuals may marry, homosexuals may not. According to the Bible. And in fact according to all cultures throughout history.
ABE: As I recall, I think I may also have considered that I'd refuse to make a cake for a second marriage after a divorce since scripture to my mind also forbids that. ABE: At least for a Christian couple. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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frako Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
And in fact according to all cultures throughout history. Again i do recommend that you study up on history Same sex marriage was practiced in history in many cultures: ancient Mesopotamia, Some regions in china, in certain times in ancient Europe of course before the Christians took over, or until 342 when constantinius II outflowed the practice, before that in Rome Nero married an unwilling young boy .... history is full of gay marriage but yes when Christianity comes along in many places they outlaw it start imprisoning and torturing Gays. So yay for Christianity and your moral code. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Nope, it's an aberration and no culture practices it, just fringeys.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: You do realise that that is the sort of thing a bigot would say?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Is a bigot someone who knows what she thinks because she's considered the issues and come to a reasoned conclusion? In that case I'm a bigot. I don't care what you call me, but you really should take into account that the tactic of calling people haters and bigots for expressing their political opinion is nothing but cheap bullying. Smear tactics. Propaganda.
ABE: Let me repeat my opinion: No sane society, no major society, no whole culture, has ever endorsed gay marriage, just small groups of fringeys. And Nero is quite the model isn't he? Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
The guy was a recent convert to Islam and beheaded the woman because that's what Islam says to do. That would be a different guy, Faith.
Political Correctness is promoted by slanderous accusations, typical propaganda method. Form of ad hominem. Comparison with Goebbels Propaganda Ministry quite legitimate comparison of method. And yet it is rather hate-y to compare me to genocidal lunatic war-criminals. If you wish to say that I'm a liar (and you turned out to be wrong), there are ways to do so without bracketing me with people who are also mass-murderers, and all of those ways would be less hateful.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
When you keep characterizing my views as hate, as I said, you belong in the class of propagandists who follow the kinds of formulas that Hitler laid out for the purpose of getting others to hate the target, and that's a form of murder in itself. Only it wasn't Hitler, who couldn't have been bright enough to write all that, it was Jesuit father Staempfle. Stop calling me and my views names in that cheap bullying way I'm talking about and I'll consider taking you out of Goebbels' camp.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: Obviously you haven't thought through the issues or if you have you havn't found a valid reason for the courts to reject gay marriage. And, of course, I was only pointing out that your comment tended to reinforce the idea that you we're a bigot. Is a little advice on how you present your position really so unwelcome?
quote: Yes, I'm aware of that. But you seem very upset when other people point out that is what you are doing.
quote: Even if that is true of past history (and you'd need to address the claims to the contrary first) that doesn't change the fact that modern societies are allowing it without any problems or any signs that there are likely to be problems from gay marriage in itself. You need more than a vague appeal to history to have a good argument. Or indeed, to have considered the issues. If that's the best you can come up with then your opinion doesn't seem based on a through consideration of the issues at all. It looks - and I say looks - more like an attempt to come up with an excuse to justify a conclusion already reached.
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: Is a bigot someone who knows what she thinks because she's considered the issues and come to a reasoned conclusion? You have no reasoned conclusion and have never presented a reasoned argument for your position. When you behave and post material that shows bigotry then a reasoned conclusion would be that you are a bigot.
Faith writes: Let me repeat my opinion: No sane society, no major society, no whole culture, has ever endorsed gay marriage, just small groups of fringeys. That is another great example of an unreasoned conclusion. It is irrelevant whether or not any other culture has condoned same sex marriage. The issue is whether or not today there can be a reasoned argument for the United States to deny same sex couples the same rights as heterosexual couples. Claiming that the religion you attempt to market forbids same sex marriage is sufficient reason for your church to not marry same sex couples. But it is insufficient reason to prevent others from marrying or to allow companies to discriminate in their practices.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Christians don't murder people because Christianity forbids murder, it doesn't advocate it. Oh for fuck's sake, Faith. He was following the commandment to kill wizards. You know, the commandment that's in the same freakin' chapter of Leviticus as the verse saying that gay sex is an abomination?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
When you keep characterizing my views as hate ... ... then I am, very obviously, telling the truth. You froth and foam with hate, Faith, your posts drip with hate, they are delirious with hate, frantic with hate. The posts in which you deny being hateful are full of hate. This one is a case in point:
When you keep characterizing my views as hate, as I said, you belong in the class of propagandists who follow the kinds of formulas that Hitler laid out for the purpose of getting others to hate the target, and that's a form of murder in itself. Only it wasn't Hitler, who couldn't have been bright enough to write all that, it was Jesuit father Staempfle. Stop calling me and my views names in that cheap bullying way I'm talking about and I'll consider taking you out of Goebbels' camp. Yeah, this is like saying "I'll go on hitting you in the face until you stop calling me violent."
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frako Member (Idle past 305 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined: |
Nope, it's an aberration and no culture practices it, just fringeys. LOL sure um ask a local native American, according to anthropologist Brian Gilley Northern native Americans held gay people in high holy regard. Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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No sane society, no major society, no whole culture, has ever endorsed gay marriage ... Well, apart from Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Denmark, England, France, Iceland, Luxembourg, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Scotland, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Uruguay, Wales ... but I fear I'm interrupting you, you must have some accusations of lying you need to be getting on with.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
You biblical Christians have an awful lot of views and behaviours that are remarkably un-Christian. What ever happened to:
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. Nowhere does this commandment say 'excluding gays, obviously.'Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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