Creation Museum a House of Cards Sitting on Old Old Earth Rocks

Dunno what happens in the USA, but here in Blighty, engineers receive BScs (Bachelor of Science degrees) and would be astonished to hear that they are not considered to be scientists.In fact they actually have to a eat botanists in their second year and form a box girder bridge out of their rib cages.

Well people here at EVC tend to take the tautological view that a scientist is someone who practices science and then use it as a way of dismissing opinions from educated people who have studied science but don't practice it. That's just a nonsense, good ideas and argument can come from anywhere - they just need to be backed by reason and evidence.It's actually more usual for an engineer to get a B.Eng than a Bsc. I have a mate who's a Civil Engineer and designs and build bridges, power stations and airports for a living, he wouldn't know which way up to hold a test tube but he's sure as hell a scientist.I would also say that my other engineering friend who is an Aeronautical Engineering and designs flight simulators for British Aerospace also probably thinks of himself as a scientist. And I bloody sure I do too.Economists and mathematicians can and do get B.Scs. I'd consider them scientists too - and why not? They all follow rational, objective models in trying to understand our world.

Ah, yes, but that wouldn't be thinking scientifically would it? Though I'm sure you're right. Perhaps economics is just harder......Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

It would excluded both, because in neither do their conclusions match their evidence. But I'm not going to go any further with this - torturing the meaning of words is as much use as arguing about the smells of an angel's fart.

I would say that an engineer carries out an empirical test of an scientific theory every time he builds a bridge.But this is all just 'no true Scotsman' stuff.