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Member (Idle past 244 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Creation Museum a House of Cards Sitting on Old Old Earth Rocks | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
herebedragons Member (Idle past 571 days) Posts: 1513 From: Michigan Joined: |
Just kinda glanced through those creation museum websites and while I don't see they make many specific points (if you want to know what evidence they have you have to pay admission
![]() HBD Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca "Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem. Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.
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jar Member Posts: 33283 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.0
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Calling them "theologians" is as insulting as calling the folk at ICR "scientists". "Biblical Christians" treat the evidence found in Bible stories the same as they treat reality; they simply misrepresent what is actually printed and make up fables to explain away the evidence.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Phat Member Posts: 15149 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar---whats the link to that list you once presented of all of the Christians who do support evolution as a valid explanation and yet who all were Christians?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 244 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
http://theclergyletterproject.org/
I would say that there are more christians that have no quarrel with evolution in general than there are those who find it problematical ... and that those who do have been brainwashed by propaganda. Certainly this letter project demonstrates that evolution can be accepted within the christian faith umbrella. IMHO by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 244 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Indeed.
* F.U.N.D.I.E.S.* = fundamentalists under numerous delusions involving evolution & science Enjoy by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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jar Member Posts: 33283 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.0
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Remember that there is a difference between "Christians" and "Chapters of Club Christian".
While a denomination may have no problems with evolution or age of the earth or any other matter of fact there can still be ignorant members that never read the Chapter bylaws. Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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mram10 Member (Idle past 2342 days) Posts: 84 Joined: |
Finally, some clarity!
I didn't know that the PHDs like Walt Brown, Dr. Jason Lisle, etc were not real scientists. Just so I have it right... if these doctors are against the theory of evolution, then they are not "real" scientists. Sarcasm aside, how can you discount the number of DRs from secular universities that doubt evolutionary theory?
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 55 days) Posts: 16112 Joined:
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What post do you think you're replying to?
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Well, a scientist has to do science. My stepson has a degree in teaching, but he doesn't have a job as a teacher and never has; in fact he works as a security guard. So would it be accurate to call him a teacher? No, he's a security guard. In the same way if someone gets a qualification in science, but spends all his time bullshitting rather than doing science, then it is reasonable to say that he is not a scientist but a bullshitter.
Because it's easy to discount very small insignificant trivial things. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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jar Member Posts: 33283 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.0 |
Too funny. Walt Brown a scientist? No way. And do you even have a clue what PHd stands for?
Yes.
They are at best simply ignorant, if they claim to be scientists they are liars and the most likely reason is that they know thar is money in them thar Creationist and Biblical Christian pockets that is easy to mine. Edited by jar, : appalin spallin Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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mram10 Member (Idle past 2342 days) Posts: 84 Joined: |
Jar,
I can see why you have an issue with a guy getting a worthless PHd from that little school in mass (MIT). Mechanical engineering has nothing to do with science or plate tectonics (his specialty). The Air Force Academy usually scrapes the bottom of the barrel for physics professors ![]() Your close-mindedness is sad. I feel pity for people like you. You allow yourself to be blinded by the fear of finding a God, or admitting there are somethings that we cannot understand.
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jar Member Posts: 33283 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 4.0
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Too funny. I happen to be a cradle creedal Christian who has helped found and build churches, taught adult and child Sunday School, educated in a Christan school, raised in a Christian family. Evolution is actually pretty easy to understand, And yes, an engineer is NOT a scientist and any one claiming to be a Creation Scientist is at best a liar, more likely just a con man. Plate Tectonics is not Walt Browns specialty, it is the Snake Oil he tries to sell to the willfully ignorant Christian Cult of Ignorance.. Edited by jar, : appalin spallin Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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RAZD Member (Idle past 244 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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An appeal to authority is usually a logical fallacy ... unless it can be shown that the person is actually an expert in the field and that their position is similar to other experts in the field (in which case you can just provide the information without the appeal). Just because a person has a PhD that doesn't mean that he is a biological scientist or has any expertise in the field. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Brown_%28creationist%29 quote: Mechanical engineering is not a field of science, to say nothing about not being related to biology in general and evolution in particular. His "expertise" on evolution is no better than the person next door without a degree. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jason_Lisle quote: In other words his field of science is not related to biology in general or evolution in particular, and his field of "expertise" is the behavior of the sun, and he too has no more "expertise" in evolutionary biology than the neighbor next door without a degree. If either of these gentlemen claim to be PhD's with expertise on biological evolution, then they are lying, and such a claim would be a hoax.
One, because virtually every one is not an evolutionary biologist and evolution is NOT their field of expertise. Two, because those few who have actually studied evolutionary biology (like Jonathan Wells) are few and far between, and their purpose in studying this field is to find and expose it's weaknesses being fully committed a priori to creationism. http://en.wikipedia.org/...%28intelligent_design_advocate%29 quote: So far he has been ineffective in his religiously motivated aspirations. http://ncse.com/taking-action/project-steve There are more scientifically literate people named Steve (or some variation on that name) that support evolution than there are scientists of any stripe that "doubt" evolution. See the Steve Project. http://ncse.com/taking-action/project-steve There are more clergy type people that accept evolution as the best explanation than there are scientists of any stripe that "doubt" evolution. See the Clergy Letter Project. http://theclergyletterproject.org/ And, as DrA says, if you don't actually practice the science of the field you do have a degree in then you are not actually a scientist in that field.
Because they are easily discountable on a rational basis founded on evidence rather than belief. The opinions of people, whether actual scientists in a specific field of inquiry or the average joe (joan) (wo)man on the street are still surprisingly ineffective in altering either reality or the evidence of reality. Enjoy by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 244 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
And in a spirit of debate on the value of information, how can you discount the massive amount of evidence that the earth is old ... see Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 and that there never was a "Noachin" flood ... see Trilobites, Mountains and Marine Deposits - Evidence of a flood? Does belief in Jesus depend on belief in ancient Judaic Myths? Enjoy by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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JonF Member Posts: 6173 Joined: |
As a BSME and MSME from MIT who knows what it takes to get a graduate degree there, I am certain that Dr. Brown knew his stuff when he graduated. He'd have to be very well educated in thermodynamics, physics, mathematics, and more. Presumably he was the same at the AF Academy. People change. Dr. Brown forgot all his thermodynamics. Glenn Morton had to school him on first- term undergraduate thermodynamics. He forgot all his physics and Jellison had to point that out. (Personally I think Jellison left out a very important fact, the impossibility of getting the asteroids' orbits into the plane of the Solar System in Brown's fantasy, but when there are so many errors you just can't cover them all.) He's so loony the loonies think he's loony. He's not what he once was. Oh, and he has no education or qualifications in geology or plate tectonics. He can't even figure out a simple problem in strength of materials (rock) (see first link above).
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JonF Member Posts: 6173 Joined: |
To be fair, you need a good grounding and more in many relevant areas of science (but not necessarily biology) to get an earned PhD from MIT. Brown has that degree and used to know his stuff. He either forgot it or abandoned it when he ran off the rails.
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