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Member (Idle past 3662 days) Posts: 40 From: Simi Valley, CA USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Book "The Evolution of Genesis" | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Terrible thing to do? What is terrible about attempting to put an end to a needless controversy. Bastardizing the message.
Creationism fosters ignorance and a bigoted world view. The end doesn't justify the means.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Charles Munroe writes:
You won't end the controversy by warping the Bible to fit science. What you need to do is throw out the Bible as a source of real-world information. (That's likely to stir up more controversy.)
What is terrible about attempting to put an end to a needless controversy.
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Charles Munroe Member (Idle past 3662 days) Posts: 40 From: Simi Valley, CA USA Joined: |
It has been tried, throwing out the Bible, and it doesn't resonate with the 46% that believe in creationism. Critical thinking is in short supply in this country. The best approach is to allow the 46% to have their Bible and accept evolution . Not the best solution perhaps but the only one that has much of a chance of success.
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Charles Munroe Member (Idle past 3662 days) Posts: 40 From: Simi Valley, CA USA Joined: |
Some stories in the Old Testament are breeding grounds for atheism. A God in the Passover story that torments and then kills people that have no power to release the Hebrew slaves; a God that drowns little children and infants to get rid of evil adults that he was responsible for creating by his massive screw up in the Garden of Eden. The atheist I have talked say these are examples of why they rejected the Bible; a God that acts like he is not quite all there. In my book I try to show that many events in the Bible are real but have been exaggerated by the author.
The ten plagues were brought on by the eruption of Santorin in 1628 BCE; a natural event that God had nothing to do with. Interestingly the Bible tells the time of year the event took place, April-May, Read your Bible and see if you can spot the clues. Did God murder the first born of the Passover story? Most likely it was disease caused by rotting carcasses. If the events are carefully analyzed it could also suggest a mass poisoning arranged by Moses. I prefer the former. Did God drown all of humanity in a worldwide flood? The Bible say no. Read Genesis 7:21, 7:24 and 8:11 and then ask what would the condition of the olive tree after five or more months submerged in water. Any arborist will inform you that the tree would be dead and leafless. Want to understand the Bible? Then learn to approach it like a detective. Gather evidence and let the evidence lead you to a conclusion rather than accepting literally what the author says. The author is a human in an age of gross ignorance of the natural world.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Charles Munroe writes:
Who cares?
It has been tried, throwing out the Bible, and it doesn't resonate with the 46% that believe in creationism. Charles Munroe writes:
They won't though. Creationists aren't going to change their view of the Bible just because you want them to.
The best approach is to allow the 46% to have their Bible and accept evolution .
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined:
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Charles didn't expect to find a specialist on Hebrew (ancient?) here, did he? He thought he could just repeat the nonsense he read from books. And everyone would just bow down to him and the person writing down all the nonsense.
Peer-review. So much more reliable than people who just publish books pretending to know it all... Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
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Charles Munroe Member (Idle past 3662 days) Posts: 40 From: Simi Valley, CA USA Joined: |
Suggest you take your complaint to the people that wrote the Torah in English and the late renowned translator E.A. Speiser. Both are recognized as authorities of the ancient Hebrew language.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
If you don't reply to a particular message, then we don't know who you're talking to. Especially if you don't use quotes.
Use the Reply button in the bottom right of a message instead of the General Reply button at the top.
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Charles Munroe Member (Idle past 3662 days) Posts: 40 From: Simi Valley, CA USA Joined: |
Suggest you take your complaint to the people that wrote the Torah in English and the late renowned translator E.A. Speiser. Both are recognized as authorities of the ancient Hebrew language.
while you are at it check the batteries in your crystal ball as they appear to need replacement.
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Taq Member Posts: 10084 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
The atheist I have talked say these are examples of why they rejected the Bible; a God that acts like he is not quite all there. I would say that it is a human culture that is all there, and that is all there is. The Bible and the Abrahamic religions are as flawed as every other religion pushed by man, each claiming to be the truth while they contradict each other. Religions were mans attempts to fill in the gaps in our ignorance, give purpose where there was no purpose, and to form social bonds. Genesis is a perfect example of this. It tells us where everything came from, what the purpose of everything is, and which people you belong with. While that worked well for past generations, I don't think human culture requires it anymore.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined:
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Charles Munroe writes: The purpose of the book "The Evolution of Genesis" is to take the Biblical stories out of the realm of mythology that a literal reading would suggest. well, that's just it. that's the problem. these biblical stories are mythology. and it's not just the literal reading that suggests this. it's history, archaeology, comparative religious studies, and literary criticism that suggest it. starting with the idea that the bible must be true and the trying to work out some way for your assumption to be correct is only going to lead to bad exegesis. catholic scientist and taq rather perfectly sum up my feelings on this. the bible is an historically important selection of works, and one which i find to be very compelling and beautiful in places. to try to twist and reinterpret the text to fit it with some kind of anachronistic message is a great disservice to the text. the things the authors wrote about, and their motivations and beliefs, are far stranger and far more powerful statements about the human condition than this anachronistic revision suggests.
I use E.A. Speicer's translation of the Book of Genesis. Speicer received his PhD. from Dropsie College, what is now know as the Center for Advanced Judaic Studies. If you have a disagreement with his translation I suggest you obtain a copy of Genesis from the Anchor Bible Series now published by the Yale University Press. you mean speiser? again, as i mentioned, the translation is mostly okay. but look at the footnote under the bit "awesome" wind, which i questioned. note two things: a) he gives no justification for choosing one option over the other, when you'd think the context of this verse is pretty clear, and b) the same footnote cites harry orlinsky. orlinsky's translation reads a bit more like mine.
I suggest you obtain a copy of Genesis from the Anchor Bible Series now published by the Yale University Press. why? the masoretic hebrew is freely available.
It is intended to facilitate creationists acceptance of evolution. Evolution can be interpreted as merely the recipe that the "Intelligent Designer" followed in bringing all into existence. ... As for my religious views - they definitely have absolutely nothing what so ever to do with creationism in any of its forms. I consider creationism to be an insult to both religions, science and commonsense. Enough said?? or in other words, creationism. evolution isn't a recipe; it's a natural process that only requires the direction provided by natural selection. the problem with this is precisely that it is an insult to both religion and science. it misrepresents both to make it look like they fit together.
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MFFJM2 Member (Idle past 3235 days) Posts: 58 From: Washington, DC Joined:
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Charles Munroe wrote,
quote: I would say that most of the stories/myths in the Bible provide ample context to deny the reality of the Biblical Jehova, a deity that is supposedly omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omnipresent..
quote: A few of the hundreds of myths that present a vindictive, petty, and cruel deity.
quote: This is not my reason. My reason for rejecting the assertion for a God, any God not just Jehova, is that there is insufficient evidence to support such a belief, and therefore non-belief is the default position. I reject the Bible as anything other than myth because none of it can be corroborated, and large portions of it defy natural law.
quote: Great. Which event can you show to have occurred by empirical evidence and not simply a priori belief..?
quote: But that's not evidence ten plagues actually occurred. Rather it is assuming the stories are true, and then looking for some causal event to support their historicity. This is blatant "after this, therefore because of this" reasoning.
quote: And how do we know the Bible tales are accurate as to the time of year..? If you accept some portions of the Bible as true and others as false or exaggerated or myth...then how do you tell which is which..?
quote: How do you know there was ever any such event as proposed in the Passover story..? There are no Egyptian records of any such event, nor any other records from any extra-biblical source. The idea that 400,000 Israelites left Egypt at one time with their families, and no one took notice of it is ludicrous.
quote: What extra-biblical evidence do you have that supports the existence of Moses, or the plaagues, or the exodus, or the wandering in the desert, or any of it..? So, you have selected to believe the myths in the Bible as true, but when the Bible says these cruel and inhumane actions were caused by God you think you've found an alibi..? Really..?
quote: I prefer to see myths for what they are...myths.
quote: Certainly not. There is no God, and there never was a world-wide flood.
quote: Genesis 6:20 "And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth." The Bible says God caused a world-wide flood, which we know never happened. So, what does that tell you about the authors of this part of the Bible..maybe that they were making it up, and using flood myths from other cultures..?
quote: I already do, and I don't need to create fallacious after this, therefore because of this reasoning to give Jehova a loophole. It's all myth, and not terribly coherent myth at that.
quote: I am a detective, it's what I do for a living.
quote: Great. Are you going to provide your evidence for any of this at a later date, because so far you haven't provided any evidence of anything, just conjecture.
quote: Very true, but that doesn't mean some of it actually happened, and the author got confused. What evidence do you have that any of it happened..?
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