Where should there be "The right to refuse service"?

Speaking as a liberal atheistic partnered gay man, I fully support private businesses' right to refuse service based on any objection, religious or not. I am absolutely opposed to the forcing businesses to serve gay people.There are times when one needs to stick with certain principles even if it meant going against the mainstream. This is one of those times. I think it is absolutely vile to try to force businesses to shut down because the owners are deluded enough to believe in a magical sky daddy.

vimesey writes

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How do you distinguish the two forms of prejudice ?

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I don't. They're both prejudice.I forgot to mention that I'm also east asian. As an east asian, like many others, I've faced everything from microagression to full blown discriminatory behavior by blacks, whites, and hispanics. Did my feelings hurt? Yes, of course. Sometimes, these people don't even realize they're offending me. But realize this. Just because my feelings are hurt doesn't mean I have the right to force them to not do something. Their right does not end where my feelings begin.Don't kid yourself. The only reason this nation needed to legislate in regard to the treatment of black people because they were rioting and burning. Too many liberals are too quick to forget that these anti-discrimination laws were put in because the country was burning. It wasn't because people were somehow changed.Racists will always be racists and christians will always be christians. My partner and I have learned to avoid any place that even hints at being religious. If we go into a store and we observe someone being religious or mentions god, we just leave. It's not that hard to avoid being discriminated against.Just the other night, we went out to a restaurant because neither of us felt like cooking. There was a woman sitting at another table who kept staring at us and shaking her head. I whispered to my partner to point her out and we left to find another restaurant. Problem solved.And yes, this might surprise a lot of people, but gay couples get looks of disgust and shaking heads all the time. The vast majority of us just leave or ignore them. Only a few attention seekers sue. My message to that lesbian couple who put Sweet Cakes by Melissa out of business is their rights shouldn't end where your feelings begin. They should have just gone to another bakery to get their cake.Edit.May be I'm a little cranky because I just woke up and I haven't had my coffee yet. Edited by coffee_addict, : No reason given.Edited by coffee_addict, : No reason given.

Cat Sci writes

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As you identified, they can keep their business "opened up" if they keep it private. The legality of the situation comes in when they go public. And in that case they have to serve "everyone".

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Or, are you answering an ethical question instead of a legal one? 'Cause, I think that's what "these times" are really about:

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The distinction between a public and private business makes no sense here. All businesses are both private and public. All businesses are owned by individuals (privately) and serve the public (publically). So, trying to distinguish between private and public business is moot.

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Ha! I could've sworn that you were a girl.

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This is funny because my real name is girly sounding. A lot of people assume I'm a girl when they see my real name. Trust me, I'm as masculine as one comes.

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Congrats on your successes! I'm actually glad that you're a dude. You did seem like one.

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It ain't a success until we get 2 incomes, which won't be for at least another couple years.

vimesey writes

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I disagree. I think that a society in which there are places you don't want to go, because of your sexuality, colour or gender, is a society in need of fixing. And part of the toolbox to fix it are anti-discrimination laws and the enshrining of legal equality.

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I agree that such a society needs fixing. But legislating it is the wrong way to go.

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And those laws don't get introduced just because of rioting and burning. They got introduced in the UK without any such impetus. And the laws in both our countries, seeking to prevent sex discrimination also got introduced without women burning anything or rioting (though there were some demonstrations). They got introduced because people didn't want their societies to tolerate racial or sex discrimination.

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The US is not England. May I remind you that you guys dumped all your religious nutjobs here back when.

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Me, I want to be part of a society which has laws prohibiting discrimination based on sexuality. Not out of sense of intrusive protectiveness - but because I don't want my society to be a homophobic one.

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You can't legislate people's belief system. You just can't. The communists tried this and it failed miserably.May I suggest an alternative?I have always believed that sunshine is the best disinfectant. I believe it can be applied here.