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Author Topic:   Where should there be "The right to refuse service"?
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(1)
Message 8 of 928 (728666)
06-01-2014 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Minnemooseus
05-31-2014 10:33 PM


Very interesting subject, Minnemooseus. It's a very grey area.
Haven't made my my up on when you should and when you shouldn't.
I'll tell you a story from my young days, when I worked in pubs in Syney, NSW, Aus. (Had to support myself and the studies).
Pubs in Sydney sold alchohol and also had those disgusting Pokies (gambling machines).
Normal notices on the doors. Reserve right of entry to people who were a bit dirty, etc. Dress codes. Basically as long as they were dressed in relatively clean clothes, they were allowed in.
Legally we were not allowed to discriminate against race, colour,creed, religion, sexual orientation, etc. All fine and well.
Could serve everyone alcohol, allow everyone on the pokies, etc.
However, they also had laws where, if any staff member ever even suspected that a person was intoxicated, the staff member had the legal right to refuse service and ask the customer to leave. It means that, if a staff member even thought that a person was indoxicated, they could legally tell the patron to leave. No tests involved. If the patrons didn't leave, staff members could call the cops to remove the persons involved. They would arrive a few minutes later and do it. No questions asked.
On the other side of the law, if the police showed up unexpectedly, talked to any person on the premises and found that the person was intoxicated; the staff of the establishment would be fined a hefty amount and the owner could loose his license.
I used that law on the Pokies a few times . Knew the regular customers. Talked to them all the time. Knew lots of people who couldn't really afford to gamble; would ask them to leave whether they were intoxicated or not. Just said: you're too intoxicated to be on the premises. Then they legally were oblidged to leave. It worked some times, other times it didn't.
I knew this one woman (quite wealthy), who gambled all her money away. In the beginning, she would sit in front of the pokies, all day and all night, loosing thousands (always sober, never drank any alchohol). One night she started crying. They were going to loose their house. She actually asked me to refuse her entry, due to those laws, next time she came in. Always did it after that. The owner of the establishment was furious, but the woman's husband came in and thanked me for saving their house.
It's a hard question you asked. Nothing is ever either black or white. Usually lots of grey inbetween.
Up to a point, I can understand why Fundie Christians should be allowed not to provide wedding cakes at gay weddings. Up to a point I also can understand why Fundie Christians should be forced to also sell wedding cakes at gay weddings.
A very difficult subject.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Minnemooseus, posted 05-31-2014 10:33 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Modulous, posted 06-01-2014 9:18 AM Pressie has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 10 of 928 (728668)
06-01-2014 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Modulous
06-01-2014 9:18 AM


I forgot to mention that the most important and overriding law was:
'It's illegal to allow any intoxicated person on any public premises'

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 Message 9 by Modulous, posted 06-01-2014 9:18 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 11 of 928 (728669)
06-01-2014 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Modulous
06-01-2014 9:18 AM


moduouls writes:
I can one up this. In the UK it's actually a criminal offense for a bartender to serve a drunk person - they are legally mandated to refuse service
It was exactly the same there.
I agree with those laws. Just so difficult to try and enforce. The politicians got completely intoxicated in private suits at the SFG and SFS...legally.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 12 of 928 (728670)
06-01-2014 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Modulous
06-01-2014 9:18 AM


Modulous writes:
I can one up this. In the UK it's actually a criminal offense for a bartender to serve a drunk person - they are legally mandated to refuse service!
I've had some of the best nights and days of my life in the UK in pubs, being served by fantastic people and meeting wonderful customers. Some of the best people in the world I've ever met. We started off sober and then things got along. Pissed as can be. Didn't know that they and me were breaking the law!
I even stayed in a house in High Wycombe (did I spell it correctly?) , with the full use of their extra car for a few weeks due to me meeting them in a pub. The most wonderful people on earth!
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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