Where should there be "The right to refuse service"?

It's a complete non-issue.There are 320m people in the USA, a few are crazy fundamental Christians like Faith, a few of those may make wedding cakes for a living and a few of those may be asked by a gay couple crazy, stupid or determined enough to make a point to bake them a cake with a marzipan couple indulging in anal pleasures.A few of those crazy fundies may even be crazy enough to say that they can't make a cake for queers rather than say that their order book is full and they recommend Mrs Queerlover down the road instead.It's all a nonsense, there's plenty of scope for the crazy fundies to live comfortably within the laws of the land so long as they don't feel the need to martyr themselves. Some of them do, so society will happily accept their Darwinian sacrifice.

Sure, and I've heard Steven Fry make those points several times. He apparently has never had anal sex, although..... well, never mind.But I intended the remark as an example only, not as a full description of the unique activities of the entire gay sexual repertoire. (Even though such a description would set Faith's hair alight in righteous indignation and would be worth doing for that alone.)

Duplicate post deleted.Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Like I said, 320 million people. 4 cases, one allegedly, but not apparently actually, fined. There are always a few nutters wanting to be martyrs to a silly cause - so be it. How many have been fined for not wearing a seat belt?Get over yourself, lead a good Christian life and obey a humane and civilised law intended to reduce discrimination and hatred in society. If you can't, then you can live with the enormous consequences of a fine. Ffs - it's not like you're getting your feet crushed, nails pulled out and being disembowelled. Persecution my arse. Just try to be nice to people like your good Lord instructed you to be.You're lucky that there is no afterlife and judgement, if there was you'd be in a lot of trouble with your maker - he made gays too you know.

Mark 12
28 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, Of all the commandments, which is the most important?29 The most important one, answered Jesus, is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’[f]31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[g] There is no commandment greater than these.I don't see a sub-clause caveat saying31.1a 'unless your neighbour is gay'Do you?

Yup, that was my point. There'll always be people who won't comply 'on principle.' Martyrs.

Excellent. The real Christian values of loving thy neighbour have got a little bit closer; whilst the superstitious, bigoted and medieval beliefs of the crazies that believe Gods talk to them personally are pushed further away.Another few hundred years and we may yet achieve the kind of society that Jesus would approve of.

quote:

---

The same line I would draw between pedophiles and nonpedophiles. Homosexuality is a sin and a deviation from normality.
  —Faith

---

I dunno Faith, I've read an re-read this and once I got passed wanting to call you some very bad names I was left with nothing to say except that by the standards of your own book, you're going to hell.You ought to read the thing sometime. I recommend the bits about being nice to people - you'll find quite a lot of them. Try this:"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

quote:

---

It means caring for his basic needs and treating him with respect
  —Faith

---

So bake the damn cake and treat people with respect, for God's sake be a bloody Christian.

quote:

---

but in God's eyes they are both sins

---

You do not speak for God. Listen to yourself..... Read your book with love for your fellow man, not hatred and bigotry. You're sounding like the poster child for everything that's wrong with extreme and deluded religious belief.

The truth is that you don't believe in Jesus's values at all do you?You hate all that 'liberal' stuff that Jesus says about loving your neighbour, turning the other cheek, do as you would be done by, the good Samaritan and washing the feet of sinners.No, you prefer the Old Testament God of retribution and damnation - except when it seems too hideous even for you to defend, you know, when you decide that's it's ok that your God says you can almost kill a slave because he meant it just for Isrealites and not Christians.Faith, you're a piece of work; but sure as hell, not God's work.

quote:

---

It's called rightly dividing the word of truth
  —Faith

---

You hate liberal Jesus don't you Faith? You hate the idea that he loved sinners and told you to do the same. He should have smited the prostitutes shouldn't he Faith, not washed their feet?But most of all Faith you hate the knowledge that Jesus would have baked the homosexuals a cake. He would have done it becuase he would recognise that they loved each other so much that they want to publicly take vows to be true to each other for life. And if there was ever a message Jesus wanted to give it was about peace and love and treating oneanother with respect.It must be hard living with the contradiction.

Yes. But I think that a baker would in any case have the right not to write that on a cake. At least they would here where it could be seens as inciting racial hatred if he did. Certainly the purchaser of the cake would be open to arrest for asking for that inscription and a person can't commit an offence for refusing to commit an offence - if you follow my drift.But the baker would be expected to bake a cake for the KKK without the writing - that's just normal business. I can't imagine a chap with a white gown, pointy hat and burning crucifix asking for a cake tho'......

To clarify....the KKK is unlikely to be arrested for simply asking for the inscription but he would risk arrest for having the inscription on the cake and then using it in a way that is likely to incite racial hatred.The baker would therefor not be committing an offence for refusing to write it if he had a reasonable belief that the cake could be used it that way. Basically, there's no way he could be forced to write something like that or be on the wrong side of the law.

By printing the banner, you are not just allowing it, you're enabling it.

You're kidding, right?You feel the need to actually *help* the people that want to say these disgusting things?Their right is to say it, your right is to ignore it. There is no requirement to aid and abet them in order for their rights to exist.